Author Topic: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?  (Read 5293 times)

Offline BacardiCBR

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Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« on: June 23, 2008 - 08:25:56 PM »
Hey guys,

I know about the sprag and drum double RPM thing.  What exactly is the reason that you shouldn't burn out in 1st gear?  Under what conditions will you run into trouble?  I ask because it's kinda tuff to not spin the tires in first gear.  Heck, sometimes they spin all the way up through 5,500+rpm's before I go to second.  That's a "takeoff" not a burn out.  What's the risk there?

Thanks!
'70 AAR Tribute Car




Offline imean340

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008 - 08:44:12 PM »
Hmmm, never heard of this with a 727. On GM th400's/th350's, the sprag that holds second gear supposedly gets shocked by the tires spinning, then shocked again by the shift to second when doing burnouts in a burnout box say. This causes the sprag to give and you lose second gear. The key is to start in second or start to spin slowly in/through first instead of just pounding it to avoid shocking the drivetrain. That's the belief, although I never had a problem with it in my th400 and neither has my boss when I asked him who has been professionally building race cars (his own car being an 8 second camaro) for 30 years. With the gm tranny anyway, personally i think it only becomes a problem when you are running slicks, doing a burnout in the water box and shift into second very quickly after romping through first. You're heating the tires up a lot by spinning hard in first, then you hit second and they'll hook/shock the sprag.  I try to ease into my burnouts to avoid such shock. The best idea would be to slowly go through first, then after you get into second you can get into it.  I don't think the drivetrain shock is as much when just spinning without powerbreaking as you probably wont get through the gear as quick  due to more load.

...thats if the problem is the same for the 727a....i'd like to learn more
« Last Edit: June 23, 2008 - 08:47:11 PM by imean340 »
Kris
'70 340 challenger- 69 crank and block,  bored .030 over, speed pro forged pistons, eagle forged I beam rods, 2.02/1.60 "J" heads, 3 angle valve job, 230*/230* .480/.480 110LSA cam, Eddy performer manifold, hooker supercomp 1 3/4's headers, Holley 670 street avenger, TACTRANS 727, Protorque converter, 4.56 gears, L60 M/T "I" treads, SS springs, 70/30+50/50 drag shocks---spray coming soon---

Offline tactransman

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2008 - 09:43:07 AM »
That is only for manual valve bodies with "no low band apply"
Terry-tactransman 
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Offline BacardiCBR

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2008 - 06:41:16 PM »
That is only for manual valve bodies with "no low band apply"

I do have the Cope Racing reverse manual valve body with LBA and factory drum.  I know that LBA is "extra insurance" and billet drum is "ultimate insurance".  From what your saying tactransman - I have little risk when taking-off hard and spinning the wheels?  Under what conditions, given the setup, would this be hazardous?
'70 AAR Tribute Car

Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008 - 08:58:28 PM »
You can start in 1st with the heavier cars but you have to shift to a higher gears as soon as possible. If you are in water, you have to start out in 2nd and come out under power or start slowing by using the brake.  You don't want the tires to free-wheel.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008 - 09:24:22 PM by shelbydogg »
Rob

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Offline 71bigblock

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008 - 09:24:03 PM »
I've also been very curious as what not to do if I want to keep my numbers tranny intact.  So according to Rob, I just dont want it to free-wheel?  So if you dont instantly let off the gas, let it slowly back down, it should be fine if only in 1st or Drive?    My car only one wheel peels, too...

Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008 - 09:27:01 PM »
I found the Tubo action instructions that came with my converter in 1990. I'll scan them and send it up. It says always start a water burnout in 2nd gear.   I'll add it to this post after I scan it in.  Please save this for future reference.  This is for trannies without the LOW BAND APPLY that tactransman is talking about.
Please note the "NOTE" thats talks about the possibility of a blown up case if the rear sprag is out.   Maybe this should be a sticky.
Rob
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008 - 10:25:10 PM by shelbydogg »
Rob

3 E-bodies, Megasquirt-1v3.0, Edelbrock Pro-Flo-1, Holley C950, FAST EZ-EFI; say no to carbs...yes to throttle bodies

My Pace Car restoration thread:
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=44869.0


Offline tactransman

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008 - 08:52:17 AM »
I do have the Cope Racing reverse manual valve body with LBA and factory drum.  I know that LBA is "extra insurance" and billet drum is "ultimate insurance".  From what your saying tactransman - I have little risk when taking-off hard and spinning the wheels?  Under what conditions, given the setup, would this be hazardous?
With a LBA VB,there is no problem at all.
The band will keep the transmission gear train from going free wheeling and going faster than the engine is driving it which is what happens in a no LBA VB in first gear in the water box or doing a drive train failure (u-joint,rearend etc.)
Terry-tactransman 
Torqueflite/Automatic Transmission Specialist
Union, Mo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008 - 11:51:02 AM »
Yet another reason why manual trannys are better.  :stirpot: :roflsmiley:
Greg
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Currently Mopar-less :(

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008 - 05:27:10 PM »
Yet another reason why manual trannys are better.  :stirpot: :roflsmiley:

You sound like Chryco now.   :grinyes:

Mike

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Offline tactransman

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008 - 05:38:34 PM »
You sound like Chryco now.   :grinyes:
That's what I was thinking too. :lol:
Terry-tactransman 
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Union, Mo.
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: Why not burn out in 1st gear w/ a 727?
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008 - 05:44:18 PM »
Great minds think alike!!   :smilielol:  Seriously, I can think of worse people around here to be compared to.  I only wish I had as much knowledge about these things as he does.
Greg
2003 Ford Escape XLS
Currently Mopar-less :(