Functional Hood Scoops

Author Topic: Functional Hood Scoops  (Read 19823 times)

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2008 - 01:46:02 PM »
absoluty true , this is why chokes are used , but with high air flow & a hot engine this is less of an issue than a cold start situation

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Offline Jacksboys

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2008 - 02:22:56 PM »
absoluty true , this is why chokes are used , but with high air flow & a hot engine this is less of an issue than a cold start situation

Okay, thanks   :2thumbs:
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Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2008 - 07:10:59 PM »
Cool challenger.. :bigshades:

I have always wondered if the fresh air under hood structure from a roadrunner would fit under a challenger hood and be effective.
It looks like the holes are there for it.  :thinkerg:
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Offline Devil

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2008 - 01:46:50 AM »
Sadly there is this thing called the boundry layer, and only two Mopar hood scoops get close to getting above it, 70 T/A Challenegers and 69 A12 cars.  All others are effected by the boundry layer of air flow over the hood of the vehicle and don't have any sort of benefit, other then when at stop where hot air can escape quicker.



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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2008 - 03:28:23 AM »
While I agree with boundry layer ,the hood scoop we used on the car with carb icing was the early Hemi scoop which is very low to the hood surface & there may not have been significant pressure but it still had to draw air through the scoop which was far lower temp than underhood air was

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Offline Super Blue 72

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2008 - 10:13:18 AM »
Sadly there is this thing called the boundry layer, and only two Mopar hood scoops get close to getting above it, 70 T/A Challenegers and 69 A12 cars.  All others are effected by the boundry layer of air flow over the hood of the vehicle and don't have any sort of benefit, other then when at stop where hot air can escape quicker.



Ryan


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1972 Dodge Challenger Rallye 340, AT, Code TB3=Super Blue, SBD=8/17/1971.  Yes, a Rallye without the fender louvers from the factory because of the body side molding option.

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Offline Supercuda

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2008 - 08:13:38 PM »
The boundary layer only affects hood scoops in that most scoops are not built to draw air from either above or behind the slow-moving air layer that is attached to the car. Although the boundary layer is not going to allow a "ram effect", it will still allow colder air to enter the underhood area. The denser air charge is a welcome thing to a hungry engine, and it is not so important to have the ram effect on a street car, as it is to remove the heat, and suck in some cold air. The A12 scoop did indeed have its opening above the boundary layer, and the T/A scoop was a true, "boundary layer bleed-off" design, with venting at the back of the hood to relieve underhood pressure. This design actually did ram air into the carbs, and is a true "ram-air" design. The AAR hood is also a ram-air design, but for a different reason. This was designed by NASA (then NACA), and actually controls and directs the boundary layer, funneling it into a smaller space, thus speeding it up. Cowl induction schemes are also true ram-air designs, and any other intake strategy that pulls air from a high-pressure area will also supercharge the incoming air. I know that my '63 Max-Wedge scoop works just fine, and that the ramcharger scoops on my 1970 Superbee sucked in plenty of moths at higher speeds. And as for the calculus? I don't do math when I am styling a car- it's art, not science.

Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2008 - 09:25:14 PM »
 :faint:


 :o

Thats cool... :cooldancing:
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Offline Moparal

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2008 - 10:23:33 PM »
:faint:


 :o

Thats cool... :cooldancing:


 :clueless:  So what's the scoop on the scoops :dunno:             My car runs good    and 2 scoops of raisins in Kelloggs rasin bran   But if these scoops werent intended to be used for scoops, then cutting the scoops out would be a way of trying to scoop up so extra ponies but if the ponies aren't kickin then we can assume that the scoops took a lickin :burnout: :banghead: :wave:

Offline Aussie Challenger

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2008 - 11:25:09 PM »
  There is also the danger that you could get a negative pressure at the scoops which could, not saying in our cases, but a negative pressure could have an effect on the air going into the carby, trying to suck air out. Just like some of the earlier wild cam grinds which created a positive pressure in the manifold and pushed out the incoming fuel mixture at idle drowning the filter element.   :22yikes:
Dave

Offline Super Blue 72

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2008 - 12:51:13 AM »

 :clueless:  So what's the scoop on the scoops :dunno:             My car runs good    and 2 scoops of raisins in Kelloggs rasin bran   But if these scoops werent intended to be used for scoops, then cutting the scoops out would be a way of trying to scoop up so extra ponies but if the ponies aren't kickin then we can assume that the scoops took a lickin :burnout: :banghead: :wave:


Alan, with linguistics like that, you ought to be hanging around Snoop Dogg!  :roflsmiley:  :smilielol:

1972 Dodge Challenger Rallye 340, AT, Code TB3=Super Blue, SBD=8/17/1971.  Yes, a Rallye without the fender louvers from the factory because of the body side molding option.

Pic #2 and 3 of my ARII 1/24 scale model car 

Phil in New England-Massachusetts  Always thank God for what you have!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/456046/1972-dodge-challenger

Offline hooD

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2008 - 03:51:10 AM »
 :iagree:    Good one Super Blue 72!   Snoop Scoop Dogg :roflsmiley:

But seriously, this scoop discussion is really interesting and informative.   
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Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2008 - 05:48:39 AM »

 :clueless:  So what's the scoop on the scoops :dunno:             My car runs good    and 2 scoops of raisins in Kelloggs rasin bran   But if these scoops werent intended to be used for scoops, then cutting the scoops out would be a way of trying to scoop up so extra ponies but if the ponies aren't kickin then we can assume that the scoops took a lickin :burnout: :banghead: :wave:

 :roflsmiley: :roflsmiley: :roflsmiley:
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Offline Supercuda

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2008 - 06:52:04 PM »
The way that the "raisin bran" scoops are molded into the hood, it would only create a negative pressure if they were rear-facing, as well. Also, at very high speeds (over 150 mph), it is possible that the pressure that builds under the hood would be enough to create a net negative pressure at the hood scoops, but it is not likely. The possibility of this is why the underhood area is often vented separately on a high-speed car. Why do NASCAR racers not use scoops for air induction to the carb? Because there would be too much air then, due to the speed of the car, and the amount of air that would "stack up" in the air inlet tract. Land-speed racers often block off the majority of the cowl vent because of this, and NASCAR racecars are equipped with a removable plate in this location, to facilitate different openings for different tracks and speeds. Too much air in the inlet can actually slow the car down, due to resistance caused by the air stacked up in the inlet tract. Look at any factory system, and you will find flaps that will open up and bleed off air from the tract, to avoid this on a regular car. The Ramcharger box from the 1969-70 Coronet, and the Air Grabber box from the same vintage Belvedere line, are excellent examples of this strategy. A similar strategy exists in all factory fresh air induction systems, be it flaps, vents, or loose-fitting components. This is less prevalent in shaker or "demand" systems, because they never seem to be open long enough to over-pressurize. A lack of proper venting of excess air was inflicted upon the last rendition of the Ram Air Firebird, and has reportedly resulted in lost hoods. A system needs to be thought out carefully for maximum performance, best style, and easiest asembly and service. Studying well-scienced induction systems always helps, and there are ways to do almost anything, as long as one is willing to try. One of the easiest fresh air systems I ever did was a ram air system on my first Barracuda- a 318-powered '68. I used a 4" dryer duct, duct-taped to the air cleaner snorkel, and affixed to the radiator support under the battery tray. There is a hole in the support here, and it is open to the high-pressure area in the front of the car, behind the grille. I picked up 3 MPG, and a good 10-15 HP across the board. Simplicity is good, and creativity should be encouraged. The simple rule is this: if it scoops air from the base of the windshield, the very front of the car, or from a point at least 1" above the surface of the car, it is ram air. Everything else is just fresh air, but that is at least a step up from choking on the hot stuff under the hood. 

Offline Super Blue 72

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Re: Functional Hood Scoops
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2008 - 05:27:26 PM »
Great info, Supercuda!!!!

Is that why the '69 Shelby Mustangs has those 2 rear facing scoops on the hood?  To let the excess air escape so as to prevent drag?  :clueless:

1972 Dodge Challenger Rallye 340, AT, Code TB3=Super Blue, SBD=8/17/1971.  Yes, a Rallye without the fender louvers from the factory because of the body side molding option.

Pic #2 and 3 of my ARII 1/24 scale model car 

Phil in New England-Massachusetts  Always thank God for what you have!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/456046/1972-dodge-challenger