Is it me or is Al Gore an idiot??

[ChallengerGary]

Mr. Golden Globe/Oscar/Nobel Prize is at it again

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/18/us/politics/18gorecnd.html?em&ex=1216440000&en=7435327e3529ad72&ei=5087%0A


Now he thinks we can get rid of all fossil fuels used to produce electricty within 10 years 

 Hey Al, how much does it cost to build a Nucelar Reactor?  Oh wait, that's right, your fellow tree huggin' brethren don't like nuclear power either.  Okay, hydroelectric may be the answer.  Oh wait, if there really is global warming, then snows will stop falling and the main source of hydro-electric power will cease to exist before we can do anything about it.  Okay, what about Solar Power?  How big of a solar collection field would you need to power the average city?  Have you thought about that?  Afterall, have you seen the International Space Station?  Do you notice how much surface area it takes to collect the power for that thing?  I know, I know, Wind Power is the answer.  Just make sure they don't try and put up any wind farms in YOUR back yard!

Sorry but I can't help but get a little tweaked by this jackhole and his "science."  Personnally, I thank God that some morons in my old home state could not punch the stupid frickin ballots.  How bad of a mess would we be in now if this "genius" was in the Oval Officeon Sept. 11th?  We'd have $10/gallon gas and also would have to worry consatantly about homicide bombers blowing up our malls and restuarants.

[72hemi]

As much of a conservative that I am, and as much as I hate Al Gore and think his movie was crap; I have to agree that it is possible to switch from fossil fuels in the next 10 years (for electric power). Solar cell efficiency is increasing all the time, so is wind turbine and water turbine design. But nuclear power is also a very viable resource that is way way way safer than it was in the past. Gas powered cars aren't the problem they are a drop in the bucket. We waste soooo much fuel transporting crude oil over from wherever (the middle east, venezuala, etc.) that could be spent on developing off shore drilling. Believe it or not coastal drilling is safer than transporting it (I've done the research this is fact not my opinion). Also coal is just bad news and "clean coal" is a joke. Solar powered steam plants are great, they replace burning coal to produce steam with parabolic lens and produces clean power. Why not turn a large portion of the Nevada desert into a solar grid. The government owns most of the land out there anyway. Also there are talks of building a solar farm in space and beaming the energy down to collection locations on Earth (been in development since the 70's but price is through the roof even with advancements in solar cell efficiency) which would be great long term but would require a multi-national involvement. Oh and as far as fuel economy goes the SAE world record for fuel efficiency is over 10,000 miles per gallon. Granted that was done with a single cylinder small horsepower briggs and straton style engine in a vehicle only weighing about 500 pounds, but there is no reason that we cannot have a inline 4 cylinder compact getting over 700 mpg, a V8 sedan getting over 300 mpg and a full size truck getting 100 mpg. Sorry for the ramble but this issue has been becoming sort of a hobby of mine since I had a class on it in college a year ago.

[ohio cuda]

I'm not a Gore (I can't stand him actually) fan but I have 4 turbines near me and they are quiet. Each one powers 400-500 homes. It sure makes sense to me but to each their own. Just my  2c Check out this air engine. I don't want to hijack the thread but this is pretty cool.
http://www.vidly.net/video-compressed-air-engine-car.html

[ChallengerGary]

I absolutely agree that it would be great to reduce our emissions across the board but it is his blanket statements that drive me nuts.  Shut down all fossil fuel powered electrical plants within 10 years!  GIVE ME A BREAK.  Has he bothered to do any of the math - of course not.  Economics never play a part in any of his arguments.  Plus he can be such a hypocrat it drives me nuts.

And the comment in the article about the end of the Stone Age is just plain stupid, "it wasn't a lack of stones that ended the Stone Age."   I know the intent is to say that inovation was what ended the Stone Age but if you follow the conclusion through to the present age, you 'll see what brought about the end of the Stone Age was the use of fire (produced by burning things and creating CO2) which ushered in the Bronze Age which in turn brought us the Industrial Revolution which was directly responsible for more pollution than all of our cars and electrical plants produce today COMBINED.  The air over our cities used to be black.  The rivers used to catch fire.  Now you can actually walk around major cities and breathe clean air.  People actually swim in the Hudson River and other places no one would dare to go 30 years ago.  And this is with over 6 billion people on the plant today.  I think Al just cannot stand not being in the lime light so he has to pander to the media every chance he can get.

Sorry for the rant - I just cannot stand that guy

[RabidScott]

PREFACE:  I'm not a dirty, stinky, tree-huggin' hippy, and I didn't read whatever was in that link.

It is possible and its a good idea.  We need to further solar collector and battery technology, this IS the wave of the future!  Imagine powering your house and car for FREE!

My buddy's Dad here in California spent $25k on having solar collectors put on the roof of his house, now he can run all his appliances and AC that he wants, and at the end of the month, the electric company still SENDS HIM A CHECK!!!   

It's hard to convince everyone now that this is the wave of the future, kinda like trying to sell a Cotton gin to a rich plantation owner before the Civil War.  Why buy a machine when the slaves are doing it just fine now?

I say save the resources for us car guys who will use them, the "A to B commuters" can use the electric cars.  It would drastically reduce the cost of gas.

[ChallengerGary]

That's AWESOME - Wish I had 25 grand to spend on it too!  Seriously that is pretty darn cool. 

I love the idea of zero emissions but let's look at the math.    $25K * 100,000,000 households = $25,000,000,000,000 or 25 Trillion dollars - sounds like a great project for the good ole US gov't to mandate to me even at half the price.  And even then, will there be enough power to fuel all of the indistry that pays people? 

[72bluNblu]

Okay, hydroelectric may be the answer.  Oh wait, if there really is global warming, then snows will stop falling and the main source of hydro-electric power will cease to exist before we can do anything about it. 

Uhhh, actually global warming won't stop snow from falling, in fact, it will likely increase the amount of precipitation. Warmer oceans (with more water in them,thanks ice melt) = more energy stored in water, which equals bigger,more violent weather. Rising sea levels will also account for larger surface area for the oceans, allowing more solar heating, again leading to more weather. Sure, some places will dry up because of changing weather patterns, but more will flood out. You'll just need to place the dams to take advantage of the larger hurricanes  . Maybe Al Gore isn't the only one not doing all the research?

[ntstlgl1970]

ManBearPig scares me more than Mr. Gore does - by a bunch

[ntstlgl1970]

Realistically, I think that GM is going to pull it off (as much as I dislike GM) with the Volt, it's about the best idea I've heard for a hybrid:
Electric motor(s) drives wheels, ICE gas or diesel engine charges battery. Projections put it at about 40-45k but I bet it will take off and the price will come down.

Toyota is going to offer a solar panel option on the prius to help keep the engine from starting when the A/C is on, but it's a 5k (or something like that) option.

At work they are contemplating solar panels for the roof to help offset the electrical bill, but the estimate is 3 million dollars for the system, and it doesn't add 3 million to the value of the building or provide enough to run the building.

I think solar is a definite option here in Kalifornia but may not work so well in places like Seattle. The battery and solar technology seems like it is about 1 or 2 generations from being able to really accomplish what everyone wants them to do. It will be cool when we get there...

[NoMope Greg]

I think the idea of 10 years in unrealistic, but it's time someone with some clout actually suggested setting a deadline and putting the money into the infrastructure and research necessary for us to get to the next step.  As it stands, few politicians have the political courage to do that because they're always worried about offending someone by suggesting anything that might cause some short-term pain.  Al Gore can get away with it because he doesn't have to worry about his next election.

That's AWESOME - Wish I had 25 grand to spend on it too!  Seriously that is pretty darn cool. 

I love the idea of zero emissions but let's look at the math.    $25K * 100,000,000 households = $25,000,000,000,000 or 25 Trillion dollars - sounds like a great project for the good ole US gov't to mandate to me even at half the price.  And even then, will there be enough power to fuel all of the indistry that pays people? 

I think solar is a definite option here in Kalifornia but may not work so well in places like Seattle. The battery and solar technology seems like it is about 1 or 2 generations from being able to really accomplish what everyone wants them to do. It will be cool when we get there...

IF it cost $25k per household, then $25 trillion total cost would be true.  Of course, first of all, there may be 100 million households in the US, but there aren't 100 million houses - lots of people live in multi-family housing - condos, duplexes, apartments, high-rise buildings.  Second, as Eric points out, solar won't work everywhere.  It may work well here in California or Texas or Florida, but not Washington or Maine or Alaska in the winter.  But even those places have their own options for renewable resources - wind or hydro or tidal (look it up).  Also, I think that the cost will come down as the technology matures.  After all, in the early days of the automobile, only the rich could afford them.

[RabidScott]

I don't think the government will do anything until we're almost out of petroleum and are in a total panic.

It's probably going to be a lot like Laser Eye surgery.

When it first came out, only the rich could afford it @ $5000 per eye, could only fix one type of vision problem, and it wasn't covered by health care insurance.

Doctors realized they could make an easy $5000 an eye, so more doctors started doing it, and more money was put into research, and they could fix two types of eye problems.

As people started shopping around, doctors starting dropping their prices.  Soon enough, prices came down to the point where more and more people could afford it, and with the extra resources, they were able to now correct three or four different eye problems.

Now it's cheap enough that most people can afford it, and it fixes more than the one problem it originally could.

Ironically, this is also the solution to our nation's healthcare problems.  Nobody sees how much their Insurance companies are paying for the services of something as simple as a check up, but if we were forced to "shop around" for doctors and procedures, the cost of healthcare as a whole would drop.

As this relates to energy:

If someone gets solar panels installed on their roofs, their neighbors will hear about him getting "free" electricity, so he doesn't have to pay to fill up his electric car, he gets to keep the house cool all the time, and run his appliances, the next guy will want to do it, too.

I don't think the government will be handing out free solar panel generating units, they aren't going to hurt all the taxes and other revenue they get from the ga$oline indu$try.  Can't tax the sunshine!!

[ChallengerGary]

Thanks for allowing me to vent and helping me see more than my own myopic viewpoint.  This is one of the reasons I love this forum.  We can all have a nice reasonable political discussion without it becoming a grudge match.  Thanks guys - You've ALL made great points.  However, I still think Al Gore's an idiot (or maybe he's the anti-Christ).

[360 'CUDA]

I like the way he goes from speach to speach in his G5    I bet he sits in his 10,000 square foot house and plans where he is going next in his plane.

[NoMope Greg]

Thanks for allowing me to vent and helping me see more than my own myopic viewpoint.  This is one of the reasons I love this forum.  We can all have a nice reasonable political discussion without it becoming a grudge match.  Thanks guys - You've ALL made great points.  However, I still think Al Gore's an idiot (or maybe he's the anti-Christ).

You're welcome.     It's nice to have a political discussion with someone who listens and acknowledges a different idea.  Reasoned, rational discourse is rare these days.   

And he's not an idiot.  You may not agree with him about a lot of things, but he's thinking and writing about a lot of issues that most public figures aren't willing to talk about.  I highly recommend "The Assault on Reason."

[RaptorF229]

Hey have you guys seen www.pickensplan.com . This seems to be a start. Imagine if everyone stopped using gas for their cars and left it all for our  muscle cars. Oh and did you see the electric Mini cooper thats going to be leased in california. Honda has a hydrogen car thats being leased in socal also. Just putting some gas in the fire for you all.