Restoration Opinions

[sleepychallenger]

i think its 35K even if you want them just to polish it 

[Red R/T]

Is the 35k for a complete resto?  I mean are they going to replace all missing pieces, nuts, and bolts?  Rechrome, replate, and restor all metal and plastic trim?  Seat covers, carpet, and electrical?  I'm just wandering what that price includes.

[hotrod98]

Here's my opinion. Never use a shop that has a one price structure. Doesn't make sense. If there was more than 35k worth of work, are they going to scrimp and cheap out somewhere and if the job takes much less time are they going to just pocket a huge chunk of your money?
Find an individual in your area that has a good reputation and is willing to provide a list of previous customers. Call those customers and if possible go look at their cars.
I never give people a flat rate price. I will give them an approximation based on a detailed examination of the car. I would never expect someone to leave a car with me with an open check book which is basically what these guys are doing.
A reputable shop will normally require a down payment and then charge you either weekly or monthly. At least this is the way that I do it. I don't want my money tied up in the customer's  project. The shop should always stay just a little ahead of the job cost wise. If at all possible, find someone that specializes in mopars or better yet in e-bodies. Might not be possible in your area.

Go to the area car shows and start asking people about their cars. Doing your homework now will save you lots of money and headaches later.

[ntstlgl1970]

depending on where you live, 35k is cheap (relatively speaking) for a straightforward resto. Totally depends on what the labor rates are in the area. I had a quote for a complete paint job (approximately 200 hours labor is what I was quoted), no rust repair etc. and it was 18k. But that is California bay area labor rates for you at a reputable shop.

[sadil340]

Here's my opinion. Never use a shop that has a one price structure. Doesn't make sense. If there was more than 35k worth of work, are they going to scrimp and cheap out somewhere and if the job takes much less time are they going to just pocket a huge chunk of your money?
Find an individual in your area that has a good reputation and is willing to provide a list of previous customers. Call those customers and if possible go look at their cars.
A reputable shop will normally require a down payment and then charge you either weekly or monthly. At least this is the way that I do it. I don't want my money tied up in the customer's  project. The shop should always stay just a little ahead of the job cost wise. If at all possible, find someone that specializes in mopars or better yet in e-bodies. Might not be possible in your area.

Go to the area car shows and start asking people about their cars. Doing your homework now will save you lots of money and headaches later.

I agree 100%. I had a body shop do mine and I trusted them because the owner is a true Mopar enthusiast with a history of appreciating the brand. Plus I had his shop do crash work on my '01 M5, touch up work on my '67 Continental and he had done previous work for a friend who restored cars. He could not provide me with an estimate (mucho rust and who knows how it will look coming from the blaster?) and charged me monthly for work in process. The only downside was my car sat for 9 months when he got real busy but the end result was worth it.

You can check out my progress at: http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=43281.0  if you're interested..

[Carlwalski]

depending on where you live, 35k is cheap (relatively speaking) for a straightforward resto.

Damn dude! I thought $35K was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheap. $35K for a restoration? XV quote like $110 for an XV1 car, XV2....almost a small house. A lot of others charge $70K+ USD for restorations or custom builds. There is only 1 restoration too. Anything else is a fix or freshen up. A restoration is back to bare metal, every nut, bolt and inch of the car restored. Can't stand seeing owners say: "Yup, fully restored" look under their car to see a 40 year old undercarriage with rust and grease and a mild engine bay spray paint.......ruins our hobby, especially when people list zed cars as: "Restored". Restored is used way to loosely.

 

[ChallengerHK]

Damn dude! I thought $35K was WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheap. $35K for a restoration?

One thing that comes out if you read all of this thread is that the term "restoration" can have a lot of different meanings. $35k might be a great price for some work and a lousy price for other work.

[Carlwalski]

One thing that comes out if you read all of this thread is that the term "restoration" can have a lot of different meanings. $35k might be a great price for some work and a lousy price for other work.

I read "all" the thread. My point is if it's restoring a car and there is only one meaning, as per the dictionary: the action of returning something to a former condition, then $35K to most people (one would imagine) is a bloody fantastic price. He stated for a restoration for $35K and that is what I responded to when I posted. Not paint, a freshen up or some spiffy interior mods but Restoration.

That's my point, if people classed restoration for what it really is then people would understand threads like this better, restoration for $35K no if's and or butts, all on the same page. With all the variables it's a wide open subject. I could careless what or how people class their cars, I'm not here to judge or label, I like them all from Mad Max condition to class 1 show cars, just trying to keep the hobby on track as best as I can and like to keep things factual especially for newbies or people who don't know any better.

[fishn4cuda]

Carl has a good point. In all reality a true resto will cost more than 35K. And I'm referring to complete dissasembly, every aspect renewed to perfect condition and turn key out the door. Each car is different. Paying a quality and ligitimate shop by the hr is the only way to go. I have had customers I had given an idea at first look around 20K for just the body painted, 40K turn key and at the end they spent over 60K by their choice. They were estatic with the quality for the price. I have also had projects turn the wrong way too. I am currently working on a 70 Cuda conv that I personally have over 68K invested in with no time included. It's very good to do some research...Your perseption of restored probably will be diff than anothers. Just make sure you and the shop you work with are on the same page.

[Red R/T]

Based on all these replys I guess very few of us on this site have a car that's even close to being worth what they have in them.  I know it's not cheap, I've asked a few questions on the site about resto and cost.  I guess it just boils down to how much money you are willing to part with.  And that is my 2 cents worth.

[ntstlgl1970]

Based on all these replys I guess very few of us on this site have a car that's even close to being worth what they have in them.......

I think it's because most of the members aren't looking to turn their cars for a profit, it's because we have a special bond with them. I know I have way more in my car just as it sits, unpainted, than it will ever be worth (probably).

and I agree, it all boils down to how much you are willing to part with.

Same place that quoted me 18k on the paint job said a "standard" stock restoration on a complete car with no rust repair starts at 125k - again this is CA bay area labor rates for a reputable shop. I've known these guys for a long time and whenever I visit San Jose, I like to stop by and see what they are working on. They always have cool cars there. I am also constantly amazed how much money some of the car owners pay having their stuff done.

I also agree with Carlwalski, fishn4cuda and others that the term "restoration" gets tossed around a lot. You absolutely have to work with the shop chosen to agree that each of you have the same vision of what a "restoration" is.

I think it is important to understand that a "restored" car (I'm thinking for the numbers matching, grease stick lettering type resto) will NOT have perfect panel fit, perfect paint without orange peel, and all the other imperfections that these cars came with. If you want the original "defects" corrected, that is more money....

[ChallengerHK]

I read "all" the thread.

Sorry, Carl, I wasn't accusing you of anything. My use of "you" was directed at anyone reading the post, not you personally. That having been said ...

My point is if it's restoring a car and there is only one meaning, as per the dictionary: the action of returning something to a former condition,

That actually addresses my point. Just as there's no real definition of rebodying, there's no accepted definiton of restoration. If my car has been in a wreck, and I fix it and then hand it to a guy who's doing a "restoration" he could return it to the "former condition" it was in after the wreck, but I don't think any of us would call that a restoration.

Along similar lines, somebody here a while back (I think it was the Clown) said that it his experience most cars are "overrestored," i.e., they look far better after the restoration than they ever looked factory fresh, so that wouldn't be returning the car to its former condition either.

[Carlwalski]

Sorry, Carl, I wasn't accusing you of anything. My use of "you" was directed at anyone reading the post, not you personally. That having been said ...

That actually addresses my point. Just as there's no real definition of rebodying, there's no accepted definiton of restoration. If my car has been in a wreck, and I fix it and then hand it to a guy who's doing a "restoration" he could return it to the "former condition" it was in after the wreck, but I don't think any of us would call that a restoration.

Along similar lines, somebody here a while back (I think it was the Clown) said that it his experience most cars are "overrestored," i.e., they look far better after the restoration than they ever looked factory fresh, so that wouldn't be returning the car to its former condition either.

Now worries HK, couldn't gather if you were replying to me or not, I wasn't being malicious though, just stating that if you were talking to me then I did in fact read the entire thread, is all....lol.....anyhow. You have to draw the line and it comes down to reasonable thinking. Is a car not classed as restored because it hasn't got date code plug wires? No. It's restored, just not 100% "correct" (to anal people).

As a whole, restoration is returning a car to it's former glory, after a wreck or in a barn, factory is and always will be it's former glory. It's also the manner of which it's done, Lucy is a class 1 car but is not correct through my decisions but it did go through the same build: strip, body work, paint, every nut and bolt, every inch, a full 100% bare metal restoration. Just common sense is all it takes, sure, like anything in this hobby there will always be meanings which vary but as a whole, restoration is pretty straightforward.

True, I do recall zed comment. But again, comes down to common sense, it's had the same treatment, from body work to buff and polish and has been restored albeit not 100% correct. Weird subject but it's not "real" hard to try and correct. It's like "replicas" not all 70 Challengers with T/A stripes and a 340-6bbl are T/A "Replicas". Replica is done to everything, seats, steering wheel, options, etc, not just 3 or 4 basic items. That is an other subject on to itself.

Good topic, sorry to the original poster for going off topic, albeit still there or there abouts. 

[KZ]

Hope this isn't too much of a DUH Q, but when talking FULL restoration quotes in this forum, the price I am assuming includes complete disassembly, of all parts, bolts, clips etc. Would the quote include the engine as well? Complete disaasembly, but replacing worn out gaskets, etc. and keeping and reusing all of the original parts? Or does the quote just cover engine cleaning and then painting? I suppose it depends on each shop but in general, when a person says full resto, what exactly do they mean?

[72bluNblu]

A full restoration, as Carl mentioned, means everything. Car completely disassembled, stripped of every nut, bolt whatever. Then blasted or dipped or otherwise cleaned and put back together with all new parts, or in the case of things that can't be found new, rebuilt or reconditioned parts. That should include the engine, transmission, rear-end, the whole thing. Then new bodywork and paint, interior, everything.

Now a 100% restoration and a 100% factory correct restoration are 2 different things as well, with the latter costing insanely more than the first, since the shop will have to source all date-coded parts. And most everything these days is over-restored, most people don't want to pay that kind of money to have factory fits and paint (they weren't that good!)!

35k for a full restoration isn't a bad price at all, although the "flat-rate" quote is a little interesting. Not having spoken to the shop I would assume this means that this is their minimum price they quote, so even if you brought them a perfect car and insisted they do a restoration thats what it would cost. Now if your brought them a door, I'm guessing it would cost a lot more, ie, when they fill out the work order they start adding from 35k.

A $50 shop rate is pretty conservative too. Maybe I'm a little off since I'm in CA, but when my dad was doing Austin-Healey restoration his last shop rate was over $75 an hour, and 35K would have been close to his starting price as well for a car in decent condition (mostly complete and no major rust).

If you're planning a full restoration you can pretty much figure that whatever you think the car will be worth when its restored will be the asking price for the restoration, being optomistic. There's no money to be made unless you intend to do all the work yourself, and then the "profit" is really just your labor cost. And if you over-restore or have a rough example, figure it will cost more than it will end up being worth, perhaps by A LOT if its really rough.

For example, my '72 challenger. I bought it for 11k, and figure that if I "fix it up" to how I would like it, it will cost me about 10k-15K in parts, doing my own work except the engine (engine rebuilt, floor panels patched, some new interior, new suspension, and self done bodywork and paint). If I'm lucky, when completed my car would go for around 20-25K (a loss!). If I had the money, I would have just bought a 25K car that I didn't have to do anything to, but I didn't have that kind of lump sum and I like doing my own work. And, when I'm finished it still won't be "restored", it'll just be fixed. Based on ebay and other auction sites, I would say that a fully restored (not 100% correct) run-of-the-mill '72 chally would be worth around $35K, up to maybe $45k at the top end. So $35K for the restoration is about right...