Author Topic: road race setup for challenger (how to?)  (Read 7556 times)

Offline kowalski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 173
  • Challenger=SCCA Trans Am Homologation Special
road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« on: April 01, 2004 - 12:18:28 AM »
I am trying to set my 73 challenger up to handle.  However i want to go much further than most people go.  What i want to do in the end is have a challenger that is set up almost exactly like the trans am series racers.  right now I have urethane bushings in the front end and rear leafs.  I have new rear XHD leaf springs and new 1.1 inch torsion bars. I have also installed subframe connectors.  i have new KYB shocks on all four corners as well as 17x8 inch aluminum rims with 225 50 17 in the front and 245 45 17 in the rear.  i also have all new stock braking components installed.  this handles very well right now but i want to go much farther.  What diameter sway bars should i use in the front and rear, should i use a fast ratio idler and pitman arm?  should i convert the car to manual steering (more feedback!)  how can i shed weight in the car (ie how much do the stock buckets weigh and how much does the rear seat weigh?)  should i use fiberglass bumpers in place of the heavy stock units?  does anyone know the original setup used on the real challenger trans am racers?  Thanks for your help as always!!
« Last Edit: April 01, 2004 - 12:21:42 AM by kowalski »
1970 318 bored .060 over edelbrock performer intake ported and polished 360 J heads 2.02 intake 1.60 exhaust double springs carter hi cap fuel pump edelbrock victor series water pump MSD 6AL flotech headers




Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2004 - 02:48:32 AM »
the best guy to talk to would be R moy
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/yabbse/index.php?board=8;action=display;threadid=4527
Sounds to me lik eyou are on the right track , personally I like manual steering ,, having th ewheels aligned properly is huge , more castor & camber lower ride height , reducing unsprung weight is huge & larger T bars, removing weight at the ends of the car helps & lowering the weight in the car helps too  

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2004 - 02:50:28 AM »

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline EFI-Cuda

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 119
  • 1974 Cuda 408
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2004 - 10:51:27 AM »
Kowalski,

I was thinking about increasing the handling potential of my Cuda aswell, therefore I am very interested in the responses to your post.   I was also interested in finding out more about how the suspension on the original AAR's and T/A's was setup.    

I am currently doing upgrades to my suspension similar to the ones that you have already done.   I am curious about why you feel that you still need to go farther in pursuit of better handling.   I can only assume that you feel that there is further potential for handling in the e-body.

-  How would you describe the way that your car handles currently with the modifications that you already have?

-  Is the ride quality and comfort level of your car with the current suspension modifications that you have considered decent, acceptable or bone-jarring?



I imagine that one of the biggest steps that I would have to take on order to improve handling is switching to 17inch rims and tires like you already did.    The rim/tire combination should not rub even with the vehicle's suspension lowered.

-  What is the offset on your 17inch rims?

-  Does your current setup rub the fender wells while hitting heavy bumps or making sharp turns?

-  Did you have to cut any fenderwells or relocate the rear spring position to make the wheels fit?

-  And last but not least, since you seem to be particularly aware of your car's handling characteristics, how much of a difference in handling and firmness did the sub-frames make?

Sorry to ask you so many questions, but I am sure that a lot can be learned from what you have already done.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2004 - 10:57:34 AM by 1974Cuda360 »
Cuda 408, Ford EFI, Magnum heads, Vortech V-2 Si-Trim, A-518 transmission and 3.23 gears.

Offline kowalski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 173
  • Challenger=SCCA Trans Am Homologation Special
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2004 - 01:07:36 PM »
1974Cuda360,

It's great that u are setting your Cuda to handle,  there are not many of us out there!!  Here are a few reponses to your inquires.  The rims are american racing 17x8 torque thrust II.  All I did was call american racing and asked them what would fit and they were a huge help.  I do not know the offset right now but i will find out and post it when i do.  with all the suspension mods i have done to this point the ride is not at all bone jarring!! It is actually pleasantly stiff, very much like a sport sedan.  when cornering very hard the car has a tendancy to push (understeer) but i hope to remedy that with the addition of front and rear sway bars.  I definately recomend subframe connectors for any application simply because it makes the vehicle much more durable and to me i felt much better feedback when driving hard.
Finally,  I do feel that the E Body is the American vintage equivalent of the Nissan Skyline or 3rd gen RX-7.  We should not forget that the only reason the challenger and Cuda were built was to fight the Mustang,  AMX,  Javelin, Firebird and Camaro on ROAD COURSES in the SCCA Trans Am series.  I mean no disrespect to the guys with their drag cars because it's incredible to see what they are doing with some of those challys and cuda drag machines but what I want to see is a Challenger weaving through traffic doing things that no one would ever think any muscle car could do!!!  
« Last Edit: April 01, 2004 - 03:06:20 PM by kowalski »
1970 318 bored .060 over edelbrock performer intake ported and polished 360 J heads 2.02 intake 1.60 exhaust double springs carter hi cap fuel pump edelbrock victor series water pump MSD 6AL flotech headers

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2004 - 02:16:06 PM »
I drag raced for years but it gets old fast , you stand around all day for maybe 1 minute of "seat time" I averaged 15 mins racing / season  ::)    I have a 71 Charger body that I want to make into a high speed road racer ther is just so much room under the Chargers 8' long hood to fit turbos & intercoolers etc & the aerodynamics are awesome  

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 360 'CUDA

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5784
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2004 - 07:15:32 PM »
Quote
I drag raced for years but it gets old fast , you stand around all day for maybe 1 minute of "seat time" I averaged 15 mins racing / season  

A-men to that

Still, ya get to stand around alot

Offline GhettoPop

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 336
  • I need a new pair of hookers
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2004 - 11:21:14 PM »
i have kyb's and i think they are pretty poor and dont last for very long.  heard good things about edelbrock's units.  koni's are the best IMO, u get what u pay for.  do your poly bushing make make noise?  ever consider coilovers?
MOPAR 4 LIFE!

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2004 - 01:30:23 AM »
coil overs hurt handling , they wheel hop on the rear & twist the frame rail on the front

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 73cuda383

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2004 - 01:19:51 PM »
I have a 73 barracuda with .960 torsion bars, kyb's, espo H/D springs and bigger sway bars from www.performancesuspension.com. I replaced back w/ edelbrock IAS's b/c ride was harsh. Upper tubular control arms for positive caster, new front end, firmfeel stage II power steering box,  and will get 17's. Where did you get subframe connectors and why did you choose those vs. others? Give me a number to call and order. Thanks and keep us updated as I will.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2004 - 01:38:59 PM by 73cuda383 »

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2004 - 01:34:26 PM »
Subframe connectors P 4286870 for E body , they are bolt in but can be welded in  

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 73cuda383

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2004 - 01:42:30 PM »
Subframe connectors P 4286870 for E body , they are bolt in but can be welded in  
Where do I order from? Please describe pieces and where they go. Do I need to remove seats to install?
If I only bolt-on will it be good enough or should I just get them welded?

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2004 - 02:24:56 PM »
no need to remove the seats , they connect th efront & rear subframes together. The Are made by Moapr so any of the Mopar dealers , Mancini Summit , Or local dodge dealers  

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline 73cuda383

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 111
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2004 - 02:59:49 PM »
Go to www.magnumforce.com.
On first page click on products in red.
Tubular subframe connectors:
1 1/4 .095 wall D.O.M. steel.
They can be bolted without cutting any thing for $250.
What do you think?
They also make 17 inch polished stocklooking rims, but ouch on the price :o
« Last Edit: April 05, 2004 - 03:03:42 PM by 73cuda383 »

Offline torredcuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6218
  • Epping NH joined 11/23/03
Re:road race setup for challenger (how to?)
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2004 - 05:13:36 PM »
I`ve done plenty of drag racing with my `72 and I agree there`s lots of time hanging in the pits and not much racing time.My car is actually set up more for handling also with big block leafs and torsion bars lowered in front and KYBs with 235 65/15 front,255 60/15 rear.I have a stock rear bar but haven`t installed it yet.I think my limiting factor is my tires though-BF Goodrich T/As.I don`t have a lot of funds for new wheels right now so is there a decently priced sticky 15" tire I can use?Any of you guys autocross?It looks like it would be fun to try.
Jeff
72 Barracuda 340/4spd  Torred
70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
04 Ram 2500 5.7 Hemi