Author Topic: Cam lobe wear  (Read 31720 times)

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2008 - 07:51:39 PM »
I think detemining what dampner you have on crank snout might shed some light on what you really have. Remove your lower pulley and see which of these dampners it has.
http://www.440source.com/dampers.htm
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Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2008 - 08:09:35 PM »
I surely have a damper for a steel crank.
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nivvy

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #32 on: August 10, 2008 - 08:10:33 PM »
differences in thickness' and the cast crank has weights on it.....

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #33 on: August 10, 2008 - 10:20:40 PM »
I surely have a damper for a steel crank.

If that's the case you surely have the wrong convertor!   :bricks1:
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Offline 422STROKER

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #34 on: August 10, 2008 - 11:06:11 PM »
That converter looks pretty new, so it is probably a MP unit or another brand that was dynamically balanced, spin the motor over and see if there are any other weights on it.

Tom

http://books.google.com/books?id=IjnczMjW46QC&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=balancing+weights+on+torque+converter&source=web&ots=1ntAPuYi_F&sig=yoMdkb5-d7c0KpnNUM1GhqfOjzQ&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result
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Offline LAA66

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2008 - 11:29:10 PM »
 When does the vibration occur again? Is it the motor or possibly the driveline/wheels. :clueless:

Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2008 - 02:28:25 AM »
When does the vibration occur again? Is it the motor or possibly the driveline/wheels. :clueless:

Except that you feel it when you drive you will also feel and see the car vibrating/shaking in Park and Neutral from 1100-2000 RPM.
You can minimize it by putting the timing totally wrong but then you can't drive the car.

From what I have now I then assume it's either something wrong with the MP cam or it's a balancing issue, that's all left on the car
I didn't change or checked.
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2008 - 02:58:28 AM »
I think you're chasing your tail thinking the camshaft is causing the vibration. Sounds like you have an engine balance problem. I don't know who welded that weight on the convertor, but it looks wrong to me. They balance convertors on the sides behind the ring gear, not on the back next to the drain plug. It's normal to see weights welded on there, but I've never heard of a regular non-offset balanced dampner being used with an off-set balanced convertor with weights by the drain plug.  I don't know where you got this convertor, or if somebody just erroneously installed it in the car before you bought it. Never assume the guy you bought it from knew what he was doing. He could have been retarded. Have you always had this vibration problem with this convertor, or did it suddenly start vibrating one day? That's really vital information to diagnosing it's cause. I never thought to ask you. A vibration could even be caused by a missing dowel pin in the back of the block that lines up the tranny to the motor.

As for low compression in just one cylinder, that is likely an unrelated problem. Exactly how low is low? Like 25-30 lbs?  Try squirting some oil in that one cylinder and see if the compression improves. That would indicate it's the piston rings. If oil makes no difference, it's a valve or a gasket or maybe a cracked piston.  :2cents:
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008 - 03:08:50 AM by 71chally416 »
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Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2008 - 05:06:59 AM »
The converter is a new 1900 MP one, the restorer gave it to the machineshop since they asked for it. I have spooken to the restorer/previous owner
and he just believed what the machineshop said. He didn't know the difference between internal-external. Will changing converter be of any help if
the total package is balanced together?

For the compression the difference between highest and lowest is 35 Psi cold engine and 20 with warm engine. Since the engine is "new" could it be
the ringgaps sitting "wrong"?
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2008 - 09:42:42 AM »
I'm going to assume it's had this vibration since you got the car, and it just didn't start one day.

Lots of things can make one cylinder low on compression, if it's not a valve or gasket. The gaps could be lined up, a ring or rings could be installed upside down, a compression ring could have been broken when it was assembled or it could even be missing a ring (It's happened...) The only way to tell is to pull that piston out and look. Usually the maximum variation allowable on a stock engine is 20 lbs, so you're right on the edge. Maybe you should make sure it's good and broken in before worrying about it.

I've never given my convertor to my machinist when I balanced a motor, but I always go with internal balancing. If you are 100% certain the front dampner has not been offset balanced and has no counterweight than it makes even less sense to me why the machine shop welded weight onto the convertor.   :dunno:   


 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2008 - 09:46:40 AM by 71chally416 »
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Offline moper

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2008 - 12:03:58 PM »
It sounds like a running problem, not a balance problem. A really focussed machine shop may ask for a convertor an flexplate to internally balance. It's common in Chevy jobs, and I know a couple mopar shops that like to do it if they can. If it was done that way, the enigne  should run like silk. It sounds like you had a dead cylinder. Changing parts doesnt fix things unless you get lucky. I would suggest you put the engine back together (by the way, you were VERY CAREFUKL to MAKE SURE the lifters remained in the same order you removed them, right? Not just piled on the bench like the pushrods? Because they MUST go back on EXACTLY the same lobe they were broken in on. Or you need to start with fresh lifters from scratch witht he break in procedure. At any rate, put it back together and see what it does. What did the spark plugs look like for each hole? What distributor is in it?

Offline Belgium Cuda

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #41 on: August 11, 2008 - 12:15:46 PM »
The sparkplug looked good and no difference for the low comp cyl, the distributor is a new MP electronic. I will upgrade to another cam since it's out
anyway and the heads are bought pocketported with bigger valves so I think it can take a little bigger cam.
1970 Challenger Convertible - to become a Hemi tribute
1968 Charger R/T 500 cui stroker

Offline moper

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #42 on: August 11, 2008 - 12:28:30 PM »
Was the MP unit curved properly, or just stuck in? That could make a random miss at different rpms and loads. Good choice on upgrading the cam...

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #43 on: August 11, 2008 - 03:43:44 PM »
Another real easy thing to do is to pull each plug wire off and see if each one makes the engine RPM drop the same amount, or if there is one or two that make no difference. That would actually be the first thing I always do.
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Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Cam lobe wear
« Reply #44 on: August 11, 2008 - 05:14:08 PM »
Another real easy thing to do is to pull each plug wire off and see if each one makes the engine RPM drop the same amount, or if there is one or two that make no difference. That would actually be the first thing I always do.

To state the obvious...

  DON'T pull the spark plug wires off with your bare hand while the engine is running.   :scared:

A lesson learned when I was a kid messing around with lawn mowers. It's funny how some mistakes you never make twice.   :grinyes:



  Mike

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