440 runnin better

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    Author Topic: 440 runnin better  (Read 10766 times)

    Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #60 on: August 23, 2008 - 05:35:51 AM »
    Hey guys,

      Backing your idle-mixture screws out makes it run richer, not leaner.


      Mike
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    Mike

    1970 Challenger - SOLD
    2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.


    nivvy

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #61 on: August 23, 2008 - 06:52:12 AM »
    Quote from: MEK-Dangerfield on August 23, 2008 - 05:35:51 AM
    Hey guys,

      Backing your idle-mixture screws out makes it run richer, not leaner.


      Mike

    lol... edited.... posted at 4;30 am .....  :smilielol:

    since all his stuff is new and cant find any shorting etc... im really thinking its some carb adjustmet needed.......  :working:

    hope this info helps...


    Spitting/sputtering/cracking is an indication of being too LEAN. Now, what RPMs that it's doing this tells you which jet you need to change! 2000 RPMs and lower, and you need to richen up your idle jet (go bigger). 2500-4000 RPMs and you need to richen up your main jet!

    Idle circuit: The idle circuit is the device that controls how much fuel you have at idle and it also sends fuel to the progression circuits. Where many people run into problems is that they don't understand that the IDLE JET IS THE CIRCUIT THAT THEY DO MOST OF THEIR DRIVING ON. So, this jet is critical in engine flexibility and economy. The idle jet affects engine operation up to about 2500-3000 RPMs!


    *** IMPORTANT*
    If the Idle speed screw has to be opened 2 or more turns then this is also an indication of a lean condition usually requiring greater change. At times it may appear to be showing signs of richness or flooding it is really a lean condition. This is what causes the "visible" rich condition, and confirms the need to increase the jet size. Fuel should not be dribbling into the carb....

    1st - Take the air cleaner off and look at the throttle blades "about" 1 1/2 turns on the idle speed screw... the blades should be barely turned.... fuel should NOT be dribbling down into the carb....

    2nd - turn all your mixture screws in until they stop and then back them all out equally "square" start with 1 full turn "out" each "square"
    backing thm out richens the carb out more... 

    3rd - Re-adjust the timing.........
    « Last Edit: August 23, 2008 - 07:02:53 AM by StRoKer »
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    Offline 71chmark

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #62 on: August 24, 2008 - 12:36:56 PM »
    Checked my primary idle screw.  It's about 1/2 turns open.  Set my mixture screws to 1 turn open.  Readjusted my timing.  Runs better than it has but still bucks at cruising.  I looked at my secondary throttle plates and they are only slightly less open than the primarys.  I did notice after I shut it off and went and looked about ten minutes later there was wet fuel around the secondary squirter.  I wonder if maybe my secondary plates are set too far open for idle.  Could this also cause my lower than normal vacuum of about 9 inches?  I can only get the vacuum to change about an inch or two by adjusting the mixture screw.
    « Last Edit: August 24, 2008 - 12:40:21 PM by 71chmark »
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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #63 on: August 24, 2008 - 01:28:57 PM »
    no fuel should  be dribbling into the carb back the blades off some on the secondaries.... now go out and turn the mixture screws 1/2 turn out more and richen it up some... only 1/2 turn each.... check timing again.... what rpm are you setting timing at ??? should be about 3000rpm  :working:

    take it for a drive and report back in.....   :2thumbs: turning the mixture screws is critical....


    Spitting/sputtering/cracking is an indication of being too LEAN. Now, what RPMs that it's doing this tells you which jet you need to change! 2000 RPMs and lower, and you need to richen up your idle jet (go bigger). 2500-4000 RPMs and you need to richen up your main jet!

     IDLE JET IS THE CIRCUIT THAT THEY DO MOST OF THEIR DRIVING ON. So, this jet is critical in engine flexibility and economy. The idle jet affects engine operation up to about 2500-3000 RPMs!

    Sounds like you are moving forward >>>>>>>>>>

    « Last Edit: August 24, 2008 - 01:34:40 PM by StRoKer »
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    Offline 71chmark

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #64 on: August 24, 2008 - 01:45:05 PM »
    Don't have a tach or a timing light.  Next on my list.
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    I may be schizophrenic,
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    nivvy

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #65 on: August 24, 2008 - 01:56:26 PM »
    Quote from: 71chmark on August 24, 2008 - 01:45:05 PM
    Don't have a tach or a timing light.  Next on my list.

    I have an extra small mini tach under the hood for tuning....  :working:  also buy the one wire battery power flaming river timing light.... excellent price also...   :2thumbs: 
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    Offline 71chmark

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #66 on: August 27, 2008 - 12:59:10 PM »
    Got my 440 running good.  Scary fast.  My brother-in-law made some adjustments.  Here is what he did:  moved the vacuum advance vacuum hose from the timed port (top) to the base port (bottom).  Backed out the secondary mixture screws to two turns out leaving the front screws one turn out.  Says I still need to downsize the secondary jets because it still has a slight drip.  Everything I’ve read tells me he just compensated for something else wrong, because the Holley guidance says hook the vacuum advance up to the upper port on the metering block and the 4 idle screws should be the same.   I just can’t figure out what.  Can't argue with success though.  He says sometimes you just have to put the books away.
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #67 on: August 27, 2008 - 01:21:38 PM »
    It's not unusual to find your Holley carb has some calibration malady that can't be adjusted out. It's not you or your motor, it's the carb and Holley's bad QC. If you put a different one on it's likely to have some other problem.  :pullinghair:
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    nivvy

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #68 on: August 27, 2008 - 02:09:53 PM »
    Thats good news mark..... I knew it was in the carb as earlier mentioned when all your stuff was new....  :working:

    Also when i said about turning out to richen it obviously worked but you should adjust the jetting because you want to be square on the mixture screws........  :2cents: what you have right now is a band-aid pulling out the secondaries more.... but atleast you know what the problem is.......  :2thumbs:

    "Visibly" rich can fool you into thinking your rich when you were probably trying to lean it out... and you were already lean..... see holleys aint so bad to adjust..... you can actually be running lean and rich  :scared: I had to adjust my $1100 custom dominator....  :2thumbs:

    CP
    moper
    71chally416
    moparal

    and guys like that are needed on this site :2thumbs:
    « Last Edit: August 27, 2008 - 02:11:28 PM by StRoKer »
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    Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #69 on: August 27, 2008 - 07:02:39 PM »
    Quote from: 71chmark on August 27, 2008 - 12:59:10 PM
    Got my 440 running good.  Scary fast.  My brother-in-law made some adjustments.  Here is what he did:  moved the vacuum advance vacuum hose from the timed port (top) to the base port (bottom).  Backed out the secondary mixture screws to two turns out leaving the front screws one turn out.  Says I still need to downsize the secondary jets because it still has a slight drip.  Everything I’ve read tells me he just compensated for something else wrong, because the Holley guidance says hook the vacuum advance up to the upper port on the metering block and the 4 idle screws should be the same.   I just can’t figure out what.  Can't argue with success though.  He says sometimes you just have to put the books away.

    I beg to differ here. The vacuum advance hose connects to the port low on the passenger's side front. I honestly have NO idea what that higher up port on the metering block is for.   :clueless: Possibly power brakes, but I don't have those...If you have a drip, your float level is probably too high, this has NOTHING to do with your jetting.. Honestly, all your idle mixture screws should be about the same.



       Mike
    « Last Edit: August 27, 2008 - 07:05:07 PM by MEK-Dangerfield »
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    Mike

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    Offline Bullitt-

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #70 on: August 27, 2008 - 08:49:25 PM »
    Timing is everything....  read this doc.
    http://tvmoparclub.com/files/tech/Mopar%20Timing.pdf
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    Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #71 on: August 27, 2008 - 08:52:48 PM »
    I think it was funny reading


    Sometimes you just got to put the books away :roflsmiley:
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    Offline Bullitt-

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #72 on: August 27, 2008 - 08:59:52 PM »
    Reading never hurt nobody Alan......Now I know where to hook up the vac advance on a Holley  :smokin:

    "Vacuum ports and what they do.

    Not all Holleys have the same ports, but you can tell by location and size what each one does.  Any port at the very bottom of the carb (in the aluminum baseplate) will pull manifold vacuum, which is strongest at high vacuum situations such as idle and slowing down, and weakest at low vacuum situations such as wide-open-throttle (WOT).  Common manifold vacuum connections at the bottom of the carb are PCV (usually a 3/8" diameter tube) and EGR/distributor retard/smog device hookups (usually smaller tubes under the primary fuel bowl).  The other type of vacuum connection on a Holley is ported vacuum, which is weak at idle, strong at cruise, and weak at WOT.  This one is always (if supplied at all-some competition carbs don't have this port) on the passenger (US) side of the carb, above the idle mixture screw, and is generally used for distributor vacuum advance. "

    http://www.bob2000.com/carb.htm
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    Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
    Screwed by Photobucket!

    Offline Moparal

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #73 on: August 27, 2008 - 09:03:44 PM »
    Quote from: bullitt99 on August 27, 2008 - 08:59:52 PM
    Reading never hurt nobody Alan......Now I know where to hook up the vac advance on a Holley  :smokin:

    "Vacuum ports and what they do.

    Not all Holleys have the same ports, but you can tell by location and size what each one does.  Any port at the very bottom of the carb (in the aluminum baseplate) will pull manifold vacuum, which is strongest at high vacuum situations such as idle and slowing down, and weakest at low vacuum situations such as wide-open-throttle (WOT).  Common manifold vacuum connections at the bottom of the carb are PCV (usually a 3/8" diameter tube) and EGR/distributor retard/smog device hookups (usually smaller tubes under the primary fuel bowl).  The other type of vacuum connection on a Holley is ported vacuum, which is weak at idle, strong at cruise, and weak at WOT.  This one is always (if supplied at all-some competition carbs don't have this port) on the passenger (US) side of the carb, above the idle mixture screw, and is generally used for distributor vacuum advance. "

    http://www.bob2000.com/carb.htm


    The guys uncle said to put the books away.   I love to read
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    Offline Chryco Psycho

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    Re: 440 not running right -still searching
    « Reply #74 on: August 28, 2008 - 03:30:09 AM »
    on most Holleys the port on the metering block is ported vacuum & connects to the dist if you use it at all , the vacuum on this oport increases with RPM
     the port on the base is manifold vacuum & decreases with RPM , I can see no reason to hook the dist here unless you want full advance at idle decreasing with RPM
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