Author Topic: Help me pick my engine! Update: engine picked!!  (Read 7087 times)

Offline 72bluNblu

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Help me pick my engine! Update: engine picked!!
« on: August 18, 2008 - 06:45:18 PM »
Ok, so here it is. I was planning on rebuilding a 360 to put in my '72 318/904 chally. I had the engine already, with the catch that I found it sitting, dumped outside. Its all standard measurements, and everything looks good with the exception that 5 pistons are stuck. Seriously stuck, to the point where my machinist says even going 60 over won't save the block :crying:. I don't know anything about the 360, so probably not a bad thing to skip it. So, here is my dilemma. I have a '66 383, complete, needing a rebuild. I also have a 440 interceptor, machine work completed, now 60 over that I was planning for a '53 dodge truck build I have. The truck is a few years off completion, so this is an option (I'll just use the 383 for it if I use the 440 now). I have the 318 in my chally now, although I had hoped to just do a straight engine swap as the chally is the only car I own at the moment, so I want to minimize down time. The 318 is an '84 I know almost nothing about, supposedly rebuilt "a few years ago" by the PO. It seems to run fine, good compression check across the board, no engine problems in the almost 3000 miles I've had it. And I still have the crank and rods from the '77 360.

I had hoped for a ~360-400 hp build on the 360, ~9:1 compression with eddy rpm heads, intake and cam (all budgeted to purchase, but not purchased yet). I had intended to stay SB, as I wanted to make the handling as good as possible for a '72 challenger and keep it close to the current mpg's at 13-14 around town and 16-17 highway (904 with 2.76 gears :eek7:). Whatever engine I go with will be hooked to a A833 OD (already purchased) and with 3.55 gears in the rear. I have the SB bell already, but the fly I bought is a 143 external balance (might work on the 440, not sure if its cast or forged crank, stored at another location). Either way I'm not too worried about that, I can get another bell/fly pretty easily.

The Chally is going to stay my daily driver, so the trade off between HP and mpg is a concern. I'd love to have the extra ponies (who wouldn't ! :biggrin:), but I'd also like to be able to afford to drive it, and sub 10 mpg isn't sitting well with me. Although for what its worth I also ride a motorcycle and only put about 10 -12,000 miles on my car annually anyway.

So what would you do?


Stick with the plan and find another 360 core? +100-200 bucks to buy a block to rebuild.

Rebuild the 383.  Add 70 lbs and a few hp, lose a couple mpg? No real cost change.

Use the 440. Gain ~170 lbs on the car, gain ~100 hp, lose some MPG, save machining cost (at the moment anyway)

Use the 318. Pull the engine and mate it to the A833OD (4 speed crank?), bolt on the extra stuff (heads,cam,intake,carb), and hope the PO was accurate about the rebuild. Lose HP vs. 360, hope the internals are good. Save the cost of the rebuild, save time if no issues (like an auto crank in the 318).

Rebuild the 318. Lose the car for the time to do the machine work, lose some hp vs the 360, gain knowing the engine internals, comp., balance, etc..


« Last Edit: August 28, 2008 - 05:07:49 PM by 72bluNblu »




Offline 422STROKER

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2008 - 06:56:53 PM »
Get a 360 and do it.  You could probably get another 318 real cheap(even free) if you wanted to do that.  Or you could get a Blueprint Stroker motor from Summit for around 4K and take it apart to check measurements and then slap it in. :burnout:

Tom :2thumbs:
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Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2008 - 07:20:04 PM »
360's are easy to find and cheap.  If my car weren't an R/T, that's what I would have done.  You can get great power out of a 360 and if you want a car to handle, there's nothing better than lower weight.  Less mass to accelerate, less mass to stop and less mass to transition.  Even more important when all that extra weight is located in the nose of the car.  The other advantage over the 440 is parts are a little cheaper, helping to offset the additional costs of purchase and machine work.  You might even be able to find a good short-block cheap.  I've seen one on Craigslist here.  For example: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/pts/793950159.html
Greg
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Offline Supercuda

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2008 - 07:25:23 PM »
I voted to build the 318, and here's why: 1)Not many people build 318s for performance. 2)I hate being "part of the crowd", and will go some distance to not be a part of it; my 1967 Barracuda with a Superbird wing and 383 prove that. You have a MOPAR, so you also are not a "follower"- build something unique. 3)The 318 has already been built for power- witness the Indy project of the late 60's. The rods are light, the crank has a short throw, and it just begs to be spun to 7,000rpm+. 4) You want to use the aluminum case, OD A-833 trans. This is not a good transmission choice for anything with real torque- do not use it behind a 383 or 440, and maybe not behind your planned 360. According to the torque output of my 383, I need a Viper-spec T-56 to take the punishment that my engine can dish out. A 440 would launch the countershaft out of your OD trans as soon as you sidestep the clutch. 5)You want some fuel economy- that excludes the 440 and the 360, and usually the 383, as well. Build a cool 318 car, and have fun.

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2008 - 07:42:48 PM »
It makes no sense to me to spend money on a 318 when a 360 is just as cheap to build (probably cheaper) and has 42 more cubes. The bigger bore of the 360 is also better for cylinder head flow because it the valves are farther away from the bores when they are open. My :2cents:
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Offline RDF

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008 - 07:55:28 PM »
I don't know how soon you are looking to rebuild this motor, but I have a 360 that runs that I'll be looking to sell once my 440 is complete.  The 360 is bored .030, mild cam (although it sounds bigger, just never confirmed it by taking it out), eddie performer intake and eddie 600cfm carb.  No issues with the engine what-so-ever.  A minor oil leak in the passenger side rear valve cover (I think the ones on there aren't correct), but it's a small, super small leak.  The 904 is rebuilt about 2 years ago by me and TactTransMan on this site.  It's got all new hardware inside and a TransGo 2 shiftkit.  Overall, the engine runs strong and I get 3 gears of rubber when going all out.

Again, not too sure if you can wait, but I'd be looking to sell this around the first of the year.   :dunno:
Bob

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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2008 - 08:09:06 PM »
Thanks for the opinions guys, keep 'em coming.  :2thumbs:

Personally my lean is to the 360, although Greg has an interesting idea with the short block, I think I'll look at some prices on those as well. A rebuild will cost around 1200 bucks for the short block, maybe a crate short block is a good idea... After all, it would be a new block with new components...

As for the A833 OD, I've seen several posts on here about them being run behind 440's without issue. I'm sure its a stretch, but I'm not building a race car, just a street car that may go to the wednesday night drags a couple times in its lifespan. If CP has done it, I'm not super worried... :thumbsup:

RDF-
sounds like a great engine, but I'm hoping for "before winter" on my build so I can ride my motorcycle to work without worrying about getting wet. I'm also in CA, so I'd have to get it here...

Offline moper

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008 - 12:21:58 PM »
I didnt vote...lol.

I'd build a small block, because you have everything for it. The OD833 is plenty strong, even in AL form. The guys taht break them have other issues most of the time. With enough effort, a 2bbl 318 can break a std A833...:bigsmile:  I would find a 360 or 360 block at std bore. Rebuild that with forged pistons and internally balanced. A 360 flywheel is $300, so the extra $$ to balance will be cheaper in the long run... and better for the enigine. Longer stroke will give the power you want, in the rpm range you want. You can save money by not using RPMs, but have the iron heads redone by a good performance guy. Dont worry abour any porting.  Acam in the .230-.240ish range will give good milage when cruising on the highway at 1500rpm or so, and give power past 5500. Then, if you really need more power ,stick a 175hp plate system on it. It's the best way to make killer power that doesnt effect milage unless you are on it. That's what I'd do. going big block requires some pricey new stuff just to get it in there.

Offline tactransman

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008 - 12:31:23 PM »
408!  :bigsmile:
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Offline HemiOrange70

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2008 - 12:35:34 PM »
First off....the big blocks are oout if it is a daily driver (and assuming you don't own an oil company). THe 318 is a stron and very reliable motor and yes they can go like raped apes. 360's are also not expensive. The 318 is the cheapest to rebuild or use as you already have it and it is supposed to be in good condition. Money wise use the 318. You can find a cheap 360 as many are out there. it boils down to the 318 is the cheapest option, the 360 is a little more $$$ as you have to find one. Both are reliable and can be made into respectable motors.

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2008 - 01:29:48 PM »
408!  :bigsmile:

Yep, that would be the real no-brainer. For the price of a $300 crank with everything else costing about the same you get 90 more cubes with a 360 block than a 318 has and probably double the TQ. The motor doesn't have to work nearly as hard to move the car. I've built a 318, a few 360's and 340's in the past and my current stroker would just annilate any of them with ease. In fact it would annilate most every big block I've had as well. It has major advantages with the efficient 904 tranny, alot less engine weight and inherently better combustion chambers and plug location in the heads. A big block would need 100 more HP to run as good with a 727 tranny in the same chassis.

And let's face it, if you have a built V-8 motor and you drive it hard you can forget about good Mileage. Heavy car, 4 bbl carb, lumpy cam, not happening. If you don't drive it hard, why even have it? Trying to get mileage from a muscle car motor with a carb is like trying to good 1/4 mile performance from a Toyota Prius motor. They are what they are.
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Offline 422STROKER

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2008 - 01:35:48 PM »
I get 17mpg Highway with my stroker, never checked city driving. :lol:  That is almost as good as my wifes Pilot.  I got 3.23's and 26" tall tires.

Tom :2thumbs:
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Offline Jacksboys

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2008 - 02:39:40 PM »
I would suggest a 360 LA block out of a 90-91 van that has the roller cam from the factory.  This is not the Magnum block, so make sure it has the LA heads with the shaft-mounted rockers.  Also make sure you have the roller block, because some regular blocks were still used.  This would give you a cheap way to run a hydraulic roller, which will allow you to have a short dur.(224 to 230 at .050) high-lift cam.  This will allow you to take advantage of the flow of the RPM heads and still have great low-end torque.  Another benefit would be less chance of destroying a cam lobe like on the flat tappet cams.  Then use the RPM intake with an Edelbrock 600cfm carb. 

Also make sure you check the valve-piston clearance with that cam before you assemble it to make sure you have the clearance.  I would also suggest not using the cheaper pistons that Speed Pro has because the valve reliefs are not setup for the 2.02 valves and could cause problems with a high lift cam.  What ever piston you get, you should get 10:1 versions, if you use the RPM heads. 

If you want more power, then go with the 408 on this same block since it will only cost you a little more for the crank and pistons.  I would also suggest a 750 carb for this setup.

Good luck on what ever you do.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008 - 02:41:22 PM by jacksboys »
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Offline MJS73

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2008 - 03:54:07 PM »
It makes no sense to me to spend money on a 318 when a 360 is just as cheap to build (probably cheaper) and has 42 more cubes. The bigger bore of the 360 is also better for cylinder head flow because it the valves are farther away from the bores when they are open. My :2cents:

 :iagree:

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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Help me pick my engine!
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2008 - 11:55:11 PM »
 :wow:

Thanks for all the info and opinions! The 360 probably makes the most sense, stick with the original plan.

But where are the 6 people that voted 440? Or the 2 that voted 383? I know somebody thinks I should drop a BB in it!

And the 383 was pulled as a complete running engine, so other than the bell I have all the BB gear I need...
I know the mpgs would take a hit, but this is about pros and cons!  :stirpot: