For The Non Believers - "Aliens"

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Offline az-nick

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2008 - 09:48:37 PM »
  We're already there. You guys should know by now that everything is from our Creator. Of course there are many questions that man will never know the answers to. just live, be happy and be in awe of God's Creation. :ylsuper:

Well Put Scott.....  :thumbsup:




Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2008 - 07:53:12 AM »
NZ,

No doubt the universe is almost unbelievably vast.  Almost, but it's not that hard to get your head around it.  I share your conclusion that with an infinite number of worlds and Billions of years in which life could arise on them, there has to be life of some kind out there somewhere.  I have my reasons for being pretty sure that they aren't close enough to us for a friday night poker party, but I'm sure they're out there. 

As for the universe not being as old as scientists would have us believe, here's the reason:

For example, a scientist may perform a carbon-dating process on an artifact. He finds that approximately 75% of the Carbon-14 has decayed by electron emission to Nitrogen-14, and infers that this artifact is approximately 10,000 years old, as the half-life of Carbon-14 appears to be 5,730 years. But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage.

That should put the debate to rest !

P.G.
O ne
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A merica

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2008 - 08:08:31 AM »


Your big words and fancy "facts" don't scare me Keith!!  :lol: :grinno:



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Offline Topcat

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2008 - 10:19:15 AM »
NZ,

  I have my reasons for being pretty sure that they aren't close enough to us for a friday night poker party, but I'm sure they're out there. 

 But what our scientist does not realize is that every time he makes a measurement, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is there changing the results with His Noodly Appendage.

That should put the debate to rest !

P.G.


Would this be the description of the creature you're talking about?
http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_sentinel_1.jpg
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline leithal

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2008 - 10:30:22 AM »
Coming from the "show me state"... I think that until I have been abducted and probed by the little green men I can't believe they exist. :naughty: Seriously, life elsewhere could exist.  But to this point all the evidence points to us earthlings being alone in this massive universe.  It's not arrogant or naive to believe we're alone until evidence proves otherwise.

Offline HemiDog

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2008 - 10:32:37 AM »
I believe this is the reference that PG had:  http://www.venganza.org/

Offline Roppa440

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2008 - 10:56:59 AM »
Coming from the "show me state"... I think that until I have been abducted and probed by the little green men I can't believe they exist. :naughty: Seriously, life elsewhere could exist.  But to this point all the evidence points to us earthlings being alone in this massive universe.  It's not arrogant or naive to believe we're alone until evidence proves otherwise.

Actually it is looking like earth-type planets might be quite common. It will only be a matter of years before we can detect them. Already we are able to locate planets much smaller than our Jupiter. The process that formed our solar system is probably the "Norm" in the universe.

BUT!
By "earth type" I mean anything between Mars and Venus. Both worlds that cannot support complex life forms.
But still. The number of systems out there is so vast that even if we talk about 1% of earth type planets capable of supporting life you are still talking about a very large number in our galaxy alone.

The other problem is timescale. It took 350 million years to get where we are today. Even then the material we are all made from was created by a star that died a long time before our sun was even born.
Only in the last tens of thousands of years have we had intelligent life. Only in the last few years have we had the capacity to explore the universe with our instruments and reach out with our communications.
What are the chances of intelligent life being around out there at the same time as us? And close enough to visit or contact one day?
Very slim I think. Possible but not likely.
This planet has had many mass extinctions in the past. There will be others in the future. If this is true on other worlds that means that life like ours comes and goes over time. Maybe passing by in timescale like ships in the night. Never meeting and always wondering if there are others out there.
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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2008 - 11:11:20 AM »

 But to this point all the evidence points to us earthlings being alone in this massive universe.  It's not arrogant or naive to believe we're alone until evidence proves otherwise.


There is no actual evidence for or against said "argument" of life on other planets. You just have to weigh it up using what we do know. Our 1 small planet being the only one with life forms out of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000+ planets? Hmmmmmm. Someone mentioned we once thought the planet was flat, yes, but that is like comparing apples to oranges, life and technology are far superior now. Technology almost triples every decade.
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Offline leithal

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2008 - 11:51:22 AM »
No one has placed evidence on the table proving life exists elsewhere.  All that we have is the potential of life elsewhere based on statistical probablity.  That is not evidence.  The fact is we do not know as of today there is life elsewhere.  Everything we have studied (evidence) shows a lifeless ( as we know life) universe.

Offline Carlwalski

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2008 - 12:49:40 PM »

No one has placed evidence on the table proving life exists elsewhere.  All that we have is the potential of life elsewhere based on statistical probablity.  That is not evidence. 


Ah? I agree with you and all you did as repeat what I said in my previous post. One more time for those in the back of the room, no one has proven that we're the only ones here and no one has proven we aren't. But, based on the FACT that there are billions of other planets/stars/systems, I think most people would draw a pretty simple conclusion that we're not the only ones around lol. "Statistical probability" is as good as fact, not saying it is but if there are a billion holes on a table and you have 1 marble and try to roll it to one end, it is not fact that it will roll in one of them but it's obviously going to with or without evidence.

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Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2008 - 12:53:28 PM »
Actually it is looking like earth-type planets might be quite common.


Do you have a citation for this? To the best of my knowledge we've only discovered a handful of earth-type planets (something around the number I could count on the fingers of one hand) as opposed to well over a hundred Jupiter-type planets.


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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2008 - 01:04:56 PM »
Do you have a citation for this? To the best of my knowledge we've only discovered a handful of earth-type planets (something around the number I could count on the fingers of one hand) as opposed to well over a hundred Jupiter-type planets.

In our solar system perhaps lol......

Recent discoveries bring to 45 the total number of Earth-like planets with an orbital period shorter than 50 days it has discovered, and suggests one in three stars similar to our sun may harbour such planets. This is as far as our pretty caveman like technology will allow us to go. We're basically just venturing out to our mailbox, if that, in terms of discovering "the world" (universe).


Last Updated: Monday, June 16, 2008
European astronomers said Monday they have discovered five "super-Earths" — including three orbiting a single star — which they say suggests Earth-like planets could be very common outside our solar system.

The discoveries, revealed at a conference in France, were made using a spectrograph at the La Silla Observatory in Chile, which is run by the European Organization for Astronomical Research in the Southern Hemisphere, or ESO.

Planet hunter Michel Mayor, best known for discovering the first confirmed planet outside our solar system, said in a statement the finds suggest the search for Earth-like planets has just begun.

"Does every single star harbour planets and, if yes, how many? We may not yet know the answer but we are making huge progress towards it," said Mayor, the principal investigator at the ESO's Geneva Observatory.

The term Earth-like planet is a rather broad definition and includes planets with a mass below 30 Earth masses; in other words, planets smaller than gas giants like Jupiter or Saturn. But because they aren't as easy to spot as gas giants, even the largest of these planets evaded detection until recent years.

These planets are often discovered, but not seen directly, by monitoring the slight changes their gravitational pull have on the velocity of their stars. Occasionally a planet will actually pass in front of the Earth's view of the star and provide an even clearer signal of its presence. But in either case, the more frequently the planet orbits the star, the easier it is to spot.

The star with the three Earth-like planets, called HD 40307, is slightly less massive than our sun and is located 42 light-years, or about 400 trillion kilometres, away from Earth.

The planets have masses 4.2, 6.7 and 9.4 times that of Earth, and orbit the star with periods of 4.3, 9.6, and 20.4 days, respectively.

The astronomers discovered the other two Earth-like planets in two separate star systems. One planet with 7.5 times the mass of the Earth, was discovered orbiting the star HD 181433, a star that is already known to host a Jupiter-like planet. The second system contains a planet with 22 times the mass of Earth.

More than 270 planets have been discovered outside our solar system, but as instruments become more precise, research is increasingly focusing on planets similar to Earth, particularly those at a distance similar to our own planet's distance from the sun.

Astronomers see this as the "sweet spot," since the temperature and conditions might allow for the presence of liquid water, a key ingredient for supporting life.

Posted: March 12, 2008
Alpha Centauri, the closest star system to our Solar System, should harbour detectable Earth-like planets, according to a new study by astronomers at the University of Santa Cruz.

Computer simulations of planet formation were performed to show that terrestrial planets are likely to have formed around one of the three stars in the system, Alpha Centauri B. Moreover, the planets would have formed in the 'habitable zone", where liquid water can exist on the planet's surface. Although many different simulations were performed, starting with a variety of different initial conditions, in every case a system of multiple planets evolved with at least one planet about the size of Earth.

Gliese 581 c generated a lot of interest as it was initially reported to be the first potentially Earth-like planet in the habitable zone of its star, with a temperature right for liquid water on its surface and hence, potentially capable of supporting life as we know it. However, subsequent study that took into account the insolation that gives the planet five times the heat the Earth receives and the greenhouse gas effect of the planet’s atmosphere, with at least five times the greenhouse gases, now appears to make this very unlikely.

Gliese 581 d, the third planet in the Gliese system, is now regarded as more likely to harbor life. The planet is astronomically close, at 20.4 light years (193 trillion km or 119 trillion miles) from Earth in the direction of the constellation of Libra
2 months ago

Sources
www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/06/16/e...
www.nasa.com/earthlike/search:2007orbitsearchkey...

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Offline leithal

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2008 - 01:34:02 PM »
 :icon16: :icon16: :icon16:OK...This thread started with presenting the vastness of space on the number of planets that probably resemble ours as a reason to accept the idea of life elsewhere and that if we don't we are niave.  So, as someone who is at the back of the room I am naive and need for things to be repeated :crazy:.

Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2008 - 01:53:01 PM »
Do you have a citation for this? To the best of my knowledge we've only discovered a handful of earth-type planets (something around the number I could count on the fingers of one hand) as opposed to well over a hundred Jupiter-type planets.

In our solar system perhaps lol......


Well ... I'm fairly certain (like, say, 100%) that we haven't discovered hundreds of gas giants in the solar system, but that can wait for later  :rofl:

As for the rest ...


Recent discoveries bring to 45 the total number of Earth-like planets

That's what I'd like to see a cite on. The stuff you provided, as I read it, says that they now think earth-type planets are relatively (no pun intended) likely, but I'm looking for how many we've found.


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Re: For The Non Believers - "Aliens"
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2008 - 05:56:21 PM »
is it possible that the end of the universe is just the begining again? kindda like the earth, you will not find the end of the earth if you keep going, maybe the universe is a sphearical shape too? or if you hit the end, and take a different tangent, will you hit the universes outerspace? and what from there? i better stop before my head explodes.
Would this be the description of the creature you're talking about?
http://www.mwctoys.com/images/review_sentinel_1.jpg


i think i saw that thing at the local sushi shop.  :roflsmiley: