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    Author Topic: Heres one that might stump you.  (Read 7508 times)

    Offline tactransman

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #30 on: October 02, 2008 - 08:31:01 AM »
    Make sure it fits ALL the way (deep) into the crank hole also.
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    Terry-tactransman 
    Torqueflite/Automatic Transmission Specialist
    Union, Mo.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.


    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #31 on: October 02, 2008 - 08:49:51 AM »
     :iagree: It should bottom out on the convertor face.  :2thumbs:
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    Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

    Offline hemitodd

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008 - 01:58:42 PM »
    I dont even know where to start, i dropped the transmission today and it wasnt what i was expecting......

    bit of history first,

    flexplate #1
     didnt seem to fit right it ran into the face of the converter before the outside bolt holes touched the pads(actually had to use the bolts to bend the flexplate to the coverter) the converter sat back too far making it run into the tranny pump i believe causing it to fail.

    Flexplate #2

    i got a new converter and plate(fits the same) so i think im real smart and trace out the bellhousing on a piece of 3/16" aluminum plate cut it out, drill bolt holes and now i have a "shim" for between the motor and the transmission. the rubbing vibration at speed is almost gone but when the second one cracks i realize that my "super cool shim" doesnt allow the dowel pins to center the bellhousing to the engine block which may have been the reason it failed.

    Flexplate # 3

    A month ago after the second one fails i buy a B&M flexplate and it fits way better. the converter comes farther forward and the only part of the converter that touches the flexplate are the pads. i toss the shim and bolt it up to the engine. but still have the weird vibration when i step on it which goes something like this under hard acceleration
    ziiiiiing                    ziiiing                  ziiing          ziing    zing zing zing zing.........(if that makes sense)

    Today

    i dropped the transmission and pull out the torque converter and the new converter has no rub marks at all.  as you can see from the picture of the pump, the first torque converter was rubbing, so aI assumethe vibration that I was getting was still from that.  The back of the new torque converter is pristine.  So since I have installed the 2nd flex plate and torque converter, there hasn't been any rubbing. 




     - there is almost no crankshaft endplay

    -  the converter hub is seated in all the way into the crankshaft (you can see where it's rubbing against the back of  the crankshaft)

    -  measured the hub and the crankshaft hole , they are almost identical

    -  blew thru the tranny cooler lines, (transmission fluid doesn't taste good) but it doesn't feel restricted

    -  crankshaft bolts are all tight and plate is square against the flange

    Here's the pics, I don't have a clue what's goin on.

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    Offline Bullitt-

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #33 on: October 03, 2008 - 02:48:23 PM »
    MMM if converter vibration is the source of most of your current problems something comes to mind...quote from Turbo Action converter section.."Chrysler 1971-Up model converters require engine balance on the converter"....
    So you may need weights or have weight you shouldn't have, I think this is motor specific.
    I have no personal experience with this.
    « Last Edit: October 03, 2008 - 02:56:48 PM by bullitt99 »
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    Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #34 on: October 03, 2008 - 03:03:44 PM »
    The bushing in your front pump might be shot. I'm also curious why the bolt heads on the flexplate look like they were ground off  :clueless:
    Also, does this convertor have balance weights when it shouldn't?
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    Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

    Offline hemitodd

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #35 on: October 03, 2008 - 05:12:57 PM »
    Hi guys

    Its a forged crank so the converter doesnt require weights nor does it have them.

    i knew someone was going to notice the crank bolts,  when i was having problems initially with vibration i went a little overboard and took a flap disc a grinder and a digital scale and made sure bolt weighed exactly the same to help  with crankshaft balance.

    when i was wiggle and spinning the converter in the transmission it did feel very sloppy to me how snug should it feel?

    todd
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    Offline tactransman

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #36 on: October 03, 2008 - 05:33:01 PM »
    Quote from: hemitodd on October 03, 2008 - 01:58:42 PM

    flexplate #1
     didnt seem to fit right it ran into the face of the converter before the outside bolt holes touched the pads(actually had to use the bolts to bend the flexplate to the coverter) the converter sat back too far making it run into the tranny pump i believe causing it to fail.






    It sounds to me that the hole in the back of the crank is not machined deep enough not allowing the converter to go in far enough to where the pads are against the flex plate.
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    Terry-tactransman 
    Torqueflite/Automatic Transmission Specialist
    Union, Mo.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime.

    Offline ntstlgl1970

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #37 on: October 03, 2008 - 06:06:23 PM »
    With the B+M flexplate, it sounds like the converter locates correctly, if you take the converter by itself and put it against the crank/flexplate (as it would be mounted normally), the mounting pads sit flush to the flexplate correct? If so I would think that the crank is machined ok but might be worthwhile to double check. You should never have to use the bolts to draw the converter flush with any flexplate.

    When you said there is almost no crankshaft endplay, are we talking less than .010" ? less than .140" ? did you measure it? if so, what did it measure?

    When you first started having the vibration problems, did it make the "zing" noise you described or is that something new? If new, can you isolate it to a certain gear position or does it make the noise in neutral and park as well? Does the noise change in any way between neutral/park or any other gear? Does the noise go away in park or neutral?
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    70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

    Offline quagmire

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #38 on: October 03, 2008 - 06:34:11 PM »
    It looks like the hub of the torque converter was bottoming out in the crank pilot hole.  You can see the wear marks on both the crank and the face of the converter hub.  I'd imagine that would put some serious stress on the internals of your converter after some heat expansion.  Maybe that noise was the vanes rubbing?
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #39 on: October 03, 2008 - 06:43:07 PM »
    Yes sir....
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    Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

    Offline hemitodd

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #40 on: October 03, 2008 - 08:12:15 PM »
    hey guys

     i hear what you guys are saying but would it  be possible that they would get all the other machining on the crank right (which it would have to be or i dont think the engine would be still running). and not bore the end of the crank to the correct depth?
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    Offline quagmire

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #41 on: October 03, 2008 - 08:14:59 PM »
    Is there a pilot bushing pressed into the crank?
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #42 on: October 03, 2008 - 08:16:41 PM »
    Not that I can see....
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    Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #43 on: October 03, 2008 - 08:17:27 PM »
    Quote from: hemitodd on October 03, 2008 - 08:12:15 PM
    hey guys

     i hear what you guys are saying but would it  be possible that they would get all the other machining on the crank right (which it would have to be or i dont think the engine would be still running). and not bore the end of the crank to the correct depth?

    YES. Anything is possible.
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    Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

    Offline Moparal

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    Re: Heres one that might stump you.
    « Reply #44 on: October 03, 2008 - 09:10:03 PM »
    I've dealt with hundreds of mopar cranks and that is one area I have never had a problem with.  Rust or blockage of some sort, but size is always been right.  Take the tranny out, stick the tq in the crank end manually for fit into the crank hub.  Go from there forward.  Just check and verify.  Matched parts just really never give a problem. Defective parts will. This is a learning process for you, bet it wouldn't happen again :bigsmile: 
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