What would you have done?

Author Topic: What would you have done?  (Read 8186 times)

Offline priderocks

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What would you have done?
« on: October 04, 2008 - 03:31:02 PM »
This is a true story.
An acquaintance of mine purchased a rust-bucket 340 cuda from back east. It was heavily optioned with two fender tags. Other than the hood, there literally is not a single body panel on this car saveable. Floors, trunk floor, deck lid, doors, quarters, cowl, frame rails- all were either rusted away or needed replaced. Call this car A. He also owned car B, a plain jane 318 car of the same year. So, you can guess what he did. Car B now sports car A's docs. This brings up a few questions. First, how much of a car can you replace until it ceases to become the car it was? Would you call a car "the real deal" when the only original parts remaining on the car were the core support and cowl? Should he have let car A die? Would you have?

He could have spent the additional thousands and thousands of dollars and transplanted the non-rusted car B stuff to car A. Would you bother doing that? He does not buy and sell cars- this one is for his own use, so he is not out to defraud anyone. Someday, of course, some else will end up with this car. If you ended up with this car, would you rather have had a chopped-up vehicle with two linear miles of welded-in panels on it or the car as it now is?

I'm not taking a position here, so spare your anger and don't bust my chops over this.







craigsmytcudas

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2008 - 03:57:20 PM »
put the parts from your 340 car on the other car less body numbers .after all your keeping your car its not for sale and your not a dealer #s wont matter .also you wont have much of a spread in value since its just a 340 car . just destroy the 340 vin and move on .good luck on your new projest .c

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2008 - 04:03:10 PM »
I would have taken the best from both cars and made a really cool daily driver with the vin and title and body from the 318 car. It is just outright fraud to make the "good" donor into the rusted original. Besides that it can get you put in jail.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
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Offline plumcrazy704406

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2008 - 06:26:42 PM »
representation is and will always be a problem. as long as your friend does nothing to make the donor car the original car, I don't see a problem. putting the orig's tags etc is not cool in my books though. everyone luvs a great story. put it in pictures how bad the original was and what was saved to the donor.
 :2cents:

 :canada:
This thought may not be politically correct, but is an opinion offered. It may be correct? or it may be wrong? It is not designed to appease those needing shelter from the real world.

Offline DAYTONA

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2008 - 08:33:55 PM »
...it's wrong on several counts

Offline 73Chally

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2008 - 08:41:22 PM »
If he put the VIN tag from car A onto car B, then that is fraud.  If anyone checks the VIn on the cowl against the tag, he could be in deep trouble.  Since car A had 2 fender tags, I assume he put those car B also?   I know you said he plans on keeping the car and not selling, but what he did is flat wrong.

Alaskan_TA

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2008 - 08:48:52 PM »
Moving the VIN tag from one car to another is a federal crime.




craigsmytcudas

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2008 - 10:57:31 PM »
well you have 6 points of view all the same . any more questions

Offline scf100

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2008 - 12:22:58 AM »
Moving the VIN tag from one car to another is a federal crime.





right on.....no way can you give me a good reason why it should be done.....unless you want OJ's autograph.... :aarg:
1970 Challenger R/T convertible 383…. 4-speed…3.91 suregrip

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Offline torredcuda

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2008 - 06:24:40 AM »
Well there is another side that says it is OK to replace a body on a vehicle and it depends on the state and interpretation of the law.The vin numbers on the body,engine and trans are there simply to identify it in case the vehicle is stolen.Technically he didn`t remove the tag but replaced the rest of body around the cowl and there was no intent to commit fraud but it`s a gray area at best so I wouldn`t chance it.Numbers matching wasn`t such a big deal untill the cars become worth a lot of money.
Jeff
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70 roadrunner 383/auto  In-Violet
70 Duster 360/auto drag car  (Petty Blue soon)
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Offline moparmussel

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2008 - 06:51:16 AM »
i agree! the vin number stays on the cowl,rebuild around it. when all said and done the car base is what it was as started. a barracuda with cuda parts on it is still a barracuda! as long as the car is not sold as somthing it is not ,should not be wrong. this is where a buyer should do some homework and make sure the car he is buying is what it is advertised as and not a wanna be!
74 cuda,az car. built 383,727 manual shift,reverse pattern.8th cuda project,cant get enough!

Offline wiiildcat

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2008 - 07:48:34 AM »
Just curious as why he cared if the body numbers and vin all matched if it wasnt to misrepresent it to someone? If it's a keeper car just to drive and enjoy why would he care? Not wanting to bust his chops but makes no since unless just wanting to fool peeps at car shows, or what not. I know this has nothing to do with you Priderocks but do you know his reason for wanting it to all match if not to profit from it?

craigsmytcudas

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008 - 10:54:33 AM »
Am i the only one here that thinks theres not a third party here .  ::)

Offline Mopar7890

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2008 - 11:12:11 AM »
I have a friend of an acquaintance of my cousin which told me that he thinks this is a clear misrepresentation of a vehicle :nono:.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2008 - 11:14:08 AM by Mopar7890 »

Offline hotrod98

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Re: What would you have done?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2008 - 12:25:13 PM »
Suppose that you find a guy that has a building full of barracuda/cuda parts. I mean literally every piece of sheet metal has been seperated and stripped of all factory finish and there are obviously parts from several cars. You find the engine, transmission, dash, data plate, upper cowl and upper rad support with the numbers on it that matches one of the titles that he gave you. Now you gather up all of the pieces that make up a complete car and go to work assembling a car. Have you truly broken any laws? I mean the original parts are all identical and were made by the same company using the same presses, etc. You can't tell them apart. Besides, many years ago you could have bought any of these pieces brand new at any Plymouth dealer in the world. While working at body shops in the 70's and early 80's we changed out upper core supports and occasionally upper cowls with new factory replacement parts.
We weren't breaking any laws by doing that. Even today when we replace doors on cars and trucks that have the vin stickers on them, there's no way to recover the vin and the factories will no longer reproduce the vin stickers. They stopped that just a few years ago.

Part 2

I bought a car last year that I thought, according to the vin, was a real Cuda. It was rough and I bought it cheap. But, when I found out that the cowl and data plate numbers were different from the dash vin, I started researching the vins. I found that the real vin for the barracuda that I had was titled to a guy in another part of the state. I had the cuda vin numbers and could have titled the car as a cuda, but that could have come back to haunt me if this guy ever sold his car and the new owner found that he hd a real cuda and decided to do something about it. I contacted the guy and told him that the car that he owned was a real cuda and that he had my dash and that I had his. He offered to trade me his perfect dash and the signed title for the rusty dash and vin that I had. While I don't have a real 70 cuda out of the deal, at least I have a real nice dash and the correct title for my 70 barracuda and now he owns a much more valuable cuda.
 
Moral of this story.  The previous owner of these two cars thought that he could just move parts around and there would never be any repurcussions. He never realized that these cars would become valuable enough some day for people to restore them even in rough shape. Luckily, in this case we were able to correct the mistakes, but it's not always this easy.
1971 Cuda, Tor-red, Bench seat
1971 Cuda Drag Car
1973 Cuda Clone, EFI/OD Limelight
1970 Superbird (Yes, it's real) Black Ice
1971 Barracuda Sassy Grass Green (sold)
1970 Challenger RT SE 383 Plum Crazy
1969 Road Runner Hardtop
1968 Road Runner Coupe (sold)

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