Author Topic: Bodyshop horror story  (Read 6719 times)

Offline HemiOrange70

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Bodyshop horror story
« on: October 08, 2008 - 06:05:04 PM »
2 Years ago I took my car to a bodyshop after I was given an estimate of 9k-12k for body work and paint. I supplied all metal parts and paid 5k then another 5k UPFRONT.I also paid for all soda-sandblasting. I would visit every month with coffee for the workers as the owner wanted me to keep current on the progress. I felt we had a good relationship as wse would talk for hours. 2 years later the metal work is done, but I was told I owe 4k more  and another 9k to finish. Needless to say the car is in my driveway.  He replaced 2 quarter panels, wheelhouse and trunk pan and one front floorpan were replaced. Added a new deck lid and trunk lid as well as some work to the front and rear valances. Two patch panels on the fenders and some window frame cleaning up. THe passenger door needed some work to the hinges. I checked with the insurance company rates and boy did I overpay. I think what upsets me the most is that people think I am that stupid. :villagers:
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008 - 06:08:34 PM by HemiOrange70 »




Offline black71

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2008 - 06:07:46 PM »
sorry bud that sucks! i have learned to never pay anything up front for paint lol

Offline Grancoupe

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2008 - 06:08:57 PM »
Was there a written estimate. How did they substantiate this?

Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2008 - 06:12:23 PM »
Man I've heard these stories before and they never turn out for the good. Hope you get some justification.!  :money:
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Offline HemiOrange70

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008 - 06:13:57 PM »
The problem with an estimate is it is just that an estimate. He keeps telling me that "it was hurt more than we thought". You know-I think someone with his experience knew exactly wht the car needed once he looked at it and he replaced some metal to make it easier for him to do other work. I am a big guy and usually don't get pushed around, but I am not 5 years old anymore and my lawyer said just to forget it as it will not be worth our time to pursue it anymore. I piacked up the fenders today and they weren't even in primer. :scared:

Offline 70shaker6pk

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2008 - 10:25:35 AM »
That is just terrible!!!  Hope you can at least get some of your money back.
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Offline ChallengerHK

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2008 - 11:32:50 AM »
I feel your pain, man. That's pretty much what happened with me 20+ years ago.


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Offline ViperMan

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2008 - 12:21:08 PM »
I interviewed once at a restoration shop near my home in Harrisburg.  The manager was a very interesting guy, and he said, "I hate doing estimates - estimates are absolutely useless on cars like this.  Unless you bring me a car in bare-metal, there is absolutely no way I can give you an estimate.  I don't have a crystal ball, and I can't see through paint."

He wasn't hiring, unfortunately.

I understand your predicament.  My question is this - if you stopped by regularly to check on the progress, did he inform you of complications that arose along the way?  If he did extra work to make later work easier, were you notified - or did you get to witness first-hand - the alterations to the "plan" that were taking place?  I would have asked questions like "Well why are you doing that?  I didn't think you were going to do that..." etc.

The restoration shop I worked at took TONS of photos and as a technician I was required to make DAILY notes about what I did, what I found, what I corrected, what I compensated for, etc.  That way there was detailed information available to the customer about what was going on if a challenge on money ever arose.  And of course, they always did.  Unfortunately the shop was still managed by idiots, but they had a few good ideas.

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craigsmytcudas

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2008 - 09:33:43 PM »
This is a real bummer. When i do a car the customer usually starts with a 1000.00 deposit a few months before we start .This is for the spot in line ,during this time I look for hard to find  parts and order   . at the end of each week or two i make a draw on work performed .some weeks have down time and as should be no draws .I along with other shops would prefer a short visit after all it is a job ,no work no progress. I have questions one is why so much was spent and little progress after the first 5k you should have backed off and regroup .when i do an estimate i have never missed more than 5% so i add this to the bid as a max amount minus customer ad ons . I always try and look at both sides since i cant i wont take sides like the others on this site do with reckless abandon.c

Offline e-tek

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2008 - 12:30:14 AM »
OK, let me rant here - and Craig, you tell me if any of this rings true..... I've worked in many shops, managed several and owned one and rust work is 'filler-work' (no pun intended!), or apprentice-work, hence it goes last. If there's one thing I know, but hate to hear now, is how long peoples projects languish in shops. My neighbour died, while a shop SAT on his '41 truck body for 5 YEARS! They are there so friggin' long - but that's par for the course with MOST shops. Ask anyone on here how long it REALLY takes to do a quarter, plus inners and it's more than 12+6+4 hours!! More like 5+ days to get it finished and perfect. As well, 5K really doesn't go far. At 75 bucks an hour, you run though 600 bucks a day. 5K is gone in 8 days! Again, how long are poeple here spending to redo a whole car - YEARS! Of course that's part-time, but that was my original comment - they only work on rustees part-time. So they get into it, then collision works comes in (which pays the bills), then they forget where they were and you come in and they feel guilty, so they put the apprentice on it, who screws soemthing up and the journeyman has to fix it, but he hates rust....then parts come in that need work...then the gaps take two 8 hours days to align, grind, weld, mud and sand....and on and on.
How to avoid this? Try to go to a shop that you know, through SEVERAL referrals does good work with a resonable turnaround. Pay a small depost, but that's it. Demand pics of what they find under the paint and rust and cut-off panels and an hourly break down for billing. It'll still be DAMN EXPENSIVE (think 20K+!) but at least you'll keep 'em honest and know what they did for the cash!

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2008 - 12:42:47 AM »
2 Years ago I took my car to a bodyshop after I was given an estimate of 9k-12k for body work and paint. I felt we had a good relationship as wse would talk for hours.

I think you've indentified the problem. No shop will get anything done if they're bullsh*ting with people for hours instead of working.  :thumbsup:
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Offline wally426ci

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2008 - 07:51:56 AM »
Yep. screw paying 10k to a shop for that little work. Ivealways done my own work or had someone in the family teach me the way or help do it all together. I'll come weld someones panels for 10k but i've only welded floor pans and such  :naughty:




Im glad you were adult enough not to run through and rampage the shop, even though it would feel pretty good  :woohoo:

Good luck with the project. They gave you a chance to learn to do it all yourself.  :drunk:
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Offline ViperMan

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2008 - 12:28:39 PM »
I think you've indentified the problem. No shop will get anything done if they're bullsh*ting with people for hours instead of working.  :thumbsup:

 :iagree:  Absolutely 100%.  Now, I think it helps a shop to have a "talker" - basically a tire-kicker, estimate preparererer (didn't know where to stop there) and basically someone to chat with new and potential customers to establish that "warm fuzzy feeling."  I think when the manager or ESPECIALLY a tech has time to sit around and chew the fat, there's a definite conflict of interests there.

E-tek, I definitely hear what you're saying though, but there's another angle to things.  A lot of times - but please note I'm not saying ALL the time - a shop has to stop work on one vehicle because a customer is behind on payment, so they start working on another vehicle, but then the first customer comes up and says "well here's money - go back to work on my car" and you're constantly trying to keep up with a changing work flow.  It's very difficult.  The shop I worked at basically required customers to keep "positive cash flow" basically meaning that if at any time a customer told us to stop working, we'd never be owed money - we could just stop and give them the car back, as it was.  It became a financial nightmare for the manager.  But I understood her side too (yeah, a guy's ex-wife was trying to run the place - I'm sure they're out of business by now.  She didn't have a CLUE) - she didn't want to get a car done, have the customer owe a lot of money on it, and then be stuck with this car that the customer can't or won't pay for.

It is VERY difficult to manage a body shop, especially one that does - or even worse ONLY does - restoration work.

Jeff
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2008 - 01:45:53 PM »
 :iagree:

My old man owned a restoration shop for many years, and I grew up working in it. Resto work takes forever, and usually doesn't pay the amount of hours needed to finish the job (if the shop is honest!), especially on tough cases. It gets really difficult once you get a handful of cars (or more) at various stages and owners to go with them. Work flow, as viperman said, is a nightmare as some folks pay, others don't, and they swap back and forth all the time. People get in a hurry too and make problems, and their cars end up getting worked on before others.

That having been said, it sounds like your shop was collecting your money and not doing your work, which is always a bad scenario. They end up using your cash to run the shop instead of fix your car, and then they need more money to finish your car. 10k for stripping the paint, doing bodywork/rust repair, and painting is in the ballpark, even 14k if it was done, but 23k is just insane.  :faint: Sorry to hear about your troubles. Body shops cause a lot of issues, and it always takes too long, but the bad ones out there seem to outnumber the good ones by quite a few.

Offline torredcuda

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Re: Bodyshop horror story
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2008 - 05:38:55 AM »
  He replaced 2 quarter panels, wheelhouse and trunk pan and one front floorpan were replaced. Added a new deck lid and trunk lid as well as some work to the front and rear valances. Two patch panels on the fenders and some window frame cleaning up. THe passenger door needed some work to the hinges. :villagers:

Well resto work doesn`t compare to crash work in terms of book hours but I don`t see $14k worth of work there and while estimates on resto work are very difficult it leaves the door open for shops to screw the owner like it seems HemiOrange was.
Jeff
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