Heads

Author Topic: Heads  (Read 5820 times)

Offline lemming303

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Heads
« on: October 19, 2008 - 10:57:39 PM »
I've been doing alot of reading and looking on the net, and I'm still undecided. Also, I haven't got my block to the machine shop yet to see if its even worth using. So here is my question. If you have a suggestion, please tell me why you think so. I'm still learning a lot of this, so thanks for all info.

It's a 340 Challenger. I plan on making this car a street/strip car. Its gonna be about half/half. Its not gonna be a daily driver, I have a nissan and a pickup for that. I want max performance that i can get. As of right now I'm gonna use the Mickey Thomspon street radials, prolly 29 inch, 8 3/4 rear and I have no problem changing gears if need be. I haven't bought headers yet. I plan on using the Edel Performer RPM Air Gap intake. 727 trans with 3000 stall. Oh and I'm gonna stroke the engine to 416, 10 to 1 or 10.5 to 1 compression, 93 octane gas.

Right now I'm looking at the Edelbrock Performer RPM heads. Is this the best choice? Like I said I'm new to this and I don't know all the options. What if I buy the bare heads and get them fully ported? All suggestions/info will be appreciated. Thanks for the help.
Kevin

73 Challenger Rallye - first project




Offline 71chally416

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Re: Heads
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2008 - 11:38:43 PM »
This has already been addressed in other threads here.  My problem with the ED heads on a stroker engine is that they are pretty much cloned versions of the originals. Improved from stock, yes, and they have a much better chamber, but the have much the same physical limitations on the port volume that can be obtained. Good heads for a 318>360 in ported form but there are about 10 better aluminum heads available for a 400+ cube motor. :2cents:
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Heads
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008 - 12:52:22 AM »
I feel there are far better choices but they will cost more

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Offline lemming303

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Re: Heads
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008 - 03:13:56 PM »
OK. I was reading one of the other articles, that's why I wrote this one. But what I see alot of, and is why I wrote this separate topic, is people saying "There are better ones". Well, like I said, I'm pretty new to building musclecars. So, I don't know which ones to look at. That answer tells me nothing. I can't just type in "416 heads" on Goggle. It doesn't work. Besides, every company is going to say "Our heads are the best!" I don't know which ones actually are or aren't. I went to Indy's site, as they were the only other heads mentioned besides w2's, but they didn't have heads for a 416 (340). All I saw was 440 and 426. And the new hemis. I don't have any of those. Anyway, thats where I'm at now. I still have no idea where to go for heads, besides Edelbrock.
Kevin

73 Challenger Rallye - first project

Offline lemming303

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Re: Heads
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008 - 03:14:38 PM »
Oh and I don't mind spending money either
Kevin

73 Challenger Rallye - first project

Offline 72hemi

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Re: Heads
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008 - 04:14:32 PM »
Check these out. These heads are the ones used on the new Mopar 440 stroker small block that makes over 500hp. They ustilize offset intake rockers like the old T/A heads so that they can get better airflow on the intake runners.

http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=46498.0
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008 - 04:39:44 PM by 72hemi »
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline lemming303

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Re: Heads
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008 - 05:18:26 PM »
Those look pretty good. The other post kind of confused me though. Will they need to be ported or not? The cam I plan on using is an Engle, .575" value lift, 281° duration, .383" cam lift, 250° duration at 50, 108 ° center. Solid tappet. Haven't decided what lifters yet. Thanks again
Kevin

73 Challenger Rallye - first project

Offline 72hemi

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Re: Heads
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008 - 05:29:00 PM »
I think you can run them the way they are out of the box, but porting can be better. Here are the specs on the Mopar Crate engine that uses these heads and I think they are not ported. It makes 540 hp and 550 ft lbs of torque

Specifications:
Bore: 4.180" Stroke: 4.000"
Compression Ratio: 10.2:1 (Est.)
Block: New 340 Siamese Block with 4-Bolt Mains
Cylinder Heads: Aluminum
Intake Manifold: Mopar M1 Single Plane
Camshaft: Hydraulic High-Performance – 251º/257º Duration @ .050", .603" Lift
Oil Pan: 8-Quart Center Sump Street/Strip Oil Pan
Crankshaft: Forged 4340
Pistons: Forged
Valves: 2.055"/1.600" Stainless
Connecting Rods: Forged 6.123"
Rocker Arm: Aluminum Roller w/ 1.6:1 Ratio
« Last Edit: October 20, 2008 - 05:32:21 PM by 72hemi »
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline matt63

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Re: Heads
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008 - 05:39:41 PM »
The consensus seems to be that 500 hp is the limit to a stock block.  Perhaps the new girdles would extend this but I don't know.  That said, you will need a cam, heads and intake to suit.  It should be easily doable with a 416.  I had my stock Eddy's gasket matched and mildly ported.  The guy who did the heads said the minimum recommended work was cleaning/deburring, touching up the seats and checking/honing the guides to make sure the clearance was right.

I would check out Hughes Engines website as well as this one http://www.mopar1.us/stroker.html
Matt in Edmonton

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Offline 71chally416

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Re: Heads
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2008 - 06:16:39 PM »
Here's the Indy heads.  Scroll down to the Small block versions>
http://www.indyheads.com/headkits.html
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Offline Supercuda

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Re: Heads
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2008 - 07:46:31 PM »
The Indy heads are a good choice, but there are a lot of factors to consider with any head you purchase. Hughes knows their MOPAR, as does Indy, so both recommendations are excellent. With the current thinking regarding cylinder heads, low compression ratios, and attendant low cylinder pressures, are still the norm. Aluminum heads are not as thermally efficient as iron, and require more compression to make comparable power. Pump-grade premium gasoline can be successfully run in an engine with iron heads, with a compression ratio as high as 10.75:1. Use at least an 11:1 compression ratio in your engine, with the camshaft you have chosen, and aluminum heads. A stock-block 318 made over 500hp at Indianapolis in the late '60s, with exotic heads created by Westlake and Dan Gurney. The block is not as much of a hindrance to higher power levels as the airflow capability of the cylinder heads. If money is not a major consideration, then go for the best flow you can get, and match the rest of your valvetrain and compression ratio to the flow capabilities of the heads.

Offline lemming303

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Re: Heads
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2008 - 11:20:08 PM »
The price sheet says those Indy heads use w2 style intake and exhaust flange. Would this mean I need to buy a special intake manifold or exhaust?
Also, I had no idea that aluminum or iron had to do with compression or thermal efficiency. Why is it that you would need to run higher compression with aluminum?
Kevin

73 Challenger Rallye - first project

Offline 72hemi

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Re: Heads
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2008 - 11:26:35 PM »
To compensate for the loss of thermal efficiency that occurs when you switch from iron to aluminum. For me and iron heads I like X heads and if you really want to get expensive the factory T/A heads. You have to run a least 1 full point more of compression to compensate.
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Heads
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2008 - 11:55:32 PM »
The price sheet says those Indy heads use w2 style intake and exhaust flange. Would this mean I need to buy a special intake manifold or exhaust?

YES. But you'll be buying them anyway, right? You can get several different W-2 Intakes and TTI makes some nice W-2 headers. You should likewise use the W-2 Headers if you choose the Commando big port factory heads because the stock type headers just don't line up right. They are made for the less than ideal stock exhaust shape. The Commandos use the factory type Intake mounting but if you're going to port the heads (which I recommend if you want your hp peak at 6K+ instead of 5,500) you'll need a manifold with enough metal to port, like the ED Victor. The dual planes like the Performer RPM are better off on smaller motors that need the tq and they just don't have enough metal in the castings to remove 1/4" of material.   
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Offline lemming303

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Re: Heads
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008 - 12:04:06 AM »
I plan on getting the power band 3000-6500. The victor is great for high RPM, but in the lower end it loses a lot of torque, right? How much hood clearance would that intake require? I plan on switching my rally hood with the T/S style scoop hood. Will that fit? Thanks for all the help yall. Sorry if I ask too many questions.
Kevin

73 Challenger Rallye - first project