Heads

[lemming303]

What about the torker intake? It says the RPM range on that one is 2500 to 6500 and the Victor is 3500 to 8500. How much difference does that make?

[71chally416]

I have the Commando's & Victor Intake with a 1" spacer with a Demon 750 carb and it fits inside a ralley hood with a drop base air cleaner.

I really wouldn't worry about loss of tq with a 416 stroker motor. Mine made 500 ft lbs on the dyno and I have a hell of a time hooking it up before high gear. It was a ridiculous 540ft lbs with just mild clean up on the ports and the original Performer Intake with only 460hp, but the hp really nose dived above 5,500rpm. I made the decision then to yank the heads off with the motor on the dyno for more porting and to go with the single plane Intake to increase the runner volume to rock the hp & tq. It peaks at 6,250 now with a bunch more top end hp and a little less tq. You can run them either way, but seeing the way it taxes my chassis and tires now I'm really glad I did. It has PLENTY of tq everywhere. It's not an issue.

Remember all the ranges listed on the Edelbrock site are assuming you have a 340 or 360. The Vic is the Intake to get if you want a stroker that makes good power above 6,000rpm. It has the internal volume you need and the metal to port it without getting too thin. I don't know how well the new Torker works, but the first ones they made were horrible. They were very small inside and even the Mopar factory race manual said not to use them. The old LD340 or the Offy Port-o-sonic (with popsicle sticks epoxied to the floor in places to correct the distribution problems) was better back then. The Victor is a very good modern manifold. The factory M-1 single plane is probably just as good but it's expensive.   

[lemming303]

OK thanks for the info.

[71chally416]

I sent you a PM.

[lemming303]

OK thanks chally. I forgot to put on there that I'm not gonna use any vacuum accessories. Just straight carb.

[moper]

I think up to the 500hp level, RPMs are the way to go. Above that, they will need porting, but there are many of them with good cnc programs that can reach the 580-600hp level. But really, if you're going to pay for cnc ported heads, you can start with a head that allows for more growth. The vast majority of engines with 4" cranks do fine with RPMs with nothing other than the valve job fixed and the ports gasket matched.

[lemming303]

What do you mean by "valve job fixed"? I actually am seriously looking at those Commando heads and that Victor intake. But Im still a ways off from building the engine.

[71chally416]

The machine work on the ED heads leaves something to be desired.

Here's a A-B-C comparison with the Magnum ED heads, the Commandos and the old T/A heads clearly showing the pushrod restriction and port volume difference in each head. This is why heads that make the most hp have offset rockers (T/A's/W-2's/W-9's) Pictures say 1,000 words.


 

[moper]

All aftermarket heads are assembled on an assembly line type deal. Boxes of valves, springs, and fully machined heads gets tossed together and boxed. The castings are machined on decent equipment, but when it's a lot going thru, tolerances are wide. In order of quality of machining, I put Edelbrock first, usually tight exhaust guides, and sometimes a seat a little out of round. Indy is second. Thye have tight guides pretty much accross the board, and the last set of SRs I did had 8 seats between two heads that were out of round. And not a little. But in one case, .010" oout of round. The equipment used can get less than .0005" out of round... So it's a rushed job machining them. The out and out worst are the MP heads. The MP Edelbrock "452s" are not any worse than rpms... go figure. The big block Stage series heads are a mess, with chamber depths and size sometimes terrible, and the usual guide issues, and some seat/installed height issues. The small block Commandos are not as bad, but I would never run any head out of the box. Now, dont think it's just the mopar offerings... AFR, TFS, Wolrd, and everybody else all have then same issues.

For your 416, the RPMs will be the best balance IMO for your needs. Any intake and header fits, any rockers fit, and the cost is not bad when you really compare apples to apples. You just need to know apples...lol. The Indy haeds offer more room for growth, but for what you are looking for, they are not needed.

[CannTankerous]

Hey Kevin,

Hows the parts selection going? Sounds like you are starting to get interested in some more serious pieces. I have not been getting on here much-I'd probably get heckled about getting an an E-Bod that I can't afford right now! Always wanted a '70 Challenger or a '70 'Cuda... So, what's the latest man?

Don

[matt63]

All aftermarket heads are assembled on an assembly line type deal. Boxes of valves, springs, and fully machined heads gets tossed together and boxed. The castings are machined on decent equipment, but when it's a lot going thru, tolerances are wide. In order of quality of machining, I put Edelbrock first, usually tight exhaust guides, and sometimes a seat a little out of round. Indy is second. Thye have tight guides pretty much accross the board, and the last set of SRs I did had 8 seats between two heads that were out of round. And not a little. But in one case, .010" oout of round. The equipment used can get less than .0005" out of round... So it's a rushed job machining them. The out and out worst are the MP heads. The MP Edelbrock "452s" are not any worse than rpms... go figure. The big block Stage series heads are a mess, with chamber depths and size sometimes terrible, and the usual guide issues, and some seat/installed height issues. The small block Commandos are not as bad, but I would never run any head out of the box. Now, dont think it's just the mopar offerings... AFR, TFS, Wolrd, and everybody else all have then same issues.

For your 416, the RPMs will be the best balance IMO for your needs. Any intake and header fits, any rockers fit, and the cost is not bad when you really compare apples to apples. You just need to know apples...lol. The Indy haeds offer more room for growth, but for what you are looking for, they are not needed.

Those comments about the Eddy heads are inline with the the guy who did my Eddy heads said.  He does a basic clean-up, touches the valve seats, gasket matches the ports and sizes the guides at minimum.

[lemming303]

Hey Kevin,

Hows the parts selection going? Sounds like you are starting to get interested in some more serious pieces. I have not been getting on here much-I'd probably get heckled about getting an an E-Bod that I can't afford right now! Always wanted a '70 Challenger or a '70 'Cuda... So, what's the latest man?

Don

Man, I haven't been able to do much at all. There's been alot going on. My little bro came home for a few days before he goes to Iraq so I spent a lot of time with him, and a little too much money too. Plus deer season started today. I did get to take apart the stock heads though. They look like crap. I need to find out how much the machine shop is gonna charge to inspect the engine block and heads. I haven't bought anything yet. If I can I'm gonna rebuild the stock engine and run it until I get the car where I can drive it. If not then its gonna get put on hold until I get some other stuff done. I kind of bought this car on a whim. I don't have much garage space, not very many tools, and I need a trailer. I hate borrowing stuff. So right now I'm looking at building a shed/workshop for the car. Then I've got to get a trailer. Then I got to send the car off to get blasted. Then it gets a new floor pan and I'll go from there. I'm a long ways off from being done.

[CannTankerous]

Got to be more than cars to life-my thanks to your bro for his service. I forget-do you weld? Wondering if you are going to do the pan or farm it out. That would be a heck of a first project! Hey, remember as you change your projected combo-bigger on heads, intake, carb, headers & all-that cam starts looking smaller in a 416. Take 'er easy.

[lemming303]

I'll tell my bro. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. No, I don't weld. I did a little in high school, but that was 8 years ago. I have a friend who welds pretty good and we have a mig at our shop so I was gonna have him teach me. He'll probably do the pan, but I'd like to learn so I can do the window channels and things like that. Those are gonna take some work.
What do you mean about the cam?

[71chally416]

Just that the bigger a motor is, the "bigger" the cam you can use and still be streetable. That should be the LAST thing you pick for a motor, not the first, because all the other motor parts will dictate what you should use. Picking the wrong cam is probably the most common mistake people make with a performance motor. Do that last.