The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG

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    Author Topic: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG  (Read 18201 times)

    Offline DAYTONA

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #45 on: October 30, 2008 - 01:05:28 AM »
    Quote from: Alaskan_TA on October 28, 2008 - 05:25:29 PM


    1)  Is it true that none of the T/A's were ordered cars?

    Dealerships could (and did) order them is some cases. As an example, I have seen the orders for several of the T/As that went to Mr. Norms. Al Smith (one of his salesmen) ordered every one I saw the paperwork for.

    Some AARs were ordered by dealerships as well.


    2)  What is the rhyme or reason to the fast ratio installation?  Which cars got them and why?

    Every power steering AAR I have seen a broadcast sheet for has the fast ratio steering.

    Both the fast ratio steering & the std. ratio power steering were used on the T/As, I have no clue why.

    Both cars were also available with the manual steering box, also std. ratio.



    ...I was told many years ago  by an old time Chrysler scholar that about 50% of the Trans Am cars were built and shipped to the dealers for inventory, then they started building ordered cars(including dealer ordered for stock)...the explanation was most of the early vin# cars are lower optioned than later ones, to keep dealer inventory cost to a minimum...but, I have owned a few early vin# T/As that were special ordered "by owner" cars, one being a very early special ordered Mr. Norms triple black T/A
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    Alaskan_TA

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #46 on: October 30, 2008 - 08:17:04 PM »
    Well, he was wrong.  ;)

    As an example, the very first batch of T/As known were ordered by Mr. Norms, so in the case T/As, ordered cars were built first, before sales bank cars.

    The opposite is true for AARs.

    Also, a whole lot more than 50% of both models were sales bank cars.

    A dealer order ( or a client order through a dealership) in itself does not make it a special order in itself.

    Something like 999 paint makes it a "special" order, otherwise it is just an "order".

    Of all of the Mr. Norms records I saw for T/As, not even one of them was ordered by a client. The records are not complete, but I have seen over 100 of them.
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    Offline bb71challenger

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #47 on: October 30, 2008 - 09:58:36 PM »
    Didnt the AAR and T/A get put out for public consumption with not much advance notice or advertising? I always heard that people really did not have much time before they were all built. Is that true?
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    1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
    1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
    *Brett*

    Alaskan_TA

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #48 on: October 30, 2008 - 10:02:55 PM »
    That is true.

    To qualify for the SCCA homoglation rules, the street cars had to be built & available for the public to buy. They were built in a hurry, and even at that they did miss the April 15th deadline.
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    Offline back n black

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #49 on: October 31, 2008 - 08:48:19 AM »
    Quote from: Alaskan_TA on October 30, 2008 - 08:17:04 PM
    Well, he was wrong.  ;)

    As an example, the very first batch of T/As known were ordered by Mr. Norms, so in the case T/As, ordered cars were built first, before sales bank cars.

    The opposite is true for AARs.

    Also, a whole lot more than 50% of both models were sales bank cars.

    A dealer order ( or a client order through a dealership) in itself does not make it a special order in itself.

    Something like 999 paint makes it a "special" order, otherwise it is just an "order".

    Of all of the Mr. Norms records I saw for T/As, not even one of them was ordered by a client. The records are not complete, but I have seen over 100 of them.

    After all these years, Daytona isn't the know it all he has been pretending to be? :roflsmiley: :roflsmiley:
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    Offline 2TAGS

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #50 on: October 31, 2008 - 01:58:02 PM »
    I'm finding this fascinating.  These links go to bulletin's on Barry's T/A Registry:

    http://www.challengertaregistry.com/photos/bulletins/tsb_d3_pg2.jpg
    http://www.challengertaregistry.com/photos/bulletins/tsb_d3_pg3.jpg
    These are from the bullettin explaining to dealerships standard/optional equipment and how to order the T/A.  The bulletin is from 2/20/70 and production was to begin in early March.  The last statement reads "If you plan to order, do it now!".  I guess Mr. Norms took that to heart.   :)

    It's also intereseting that the brochure that Chrysler provided the dealerships about the T/A clearly states that 24-1 manual steering is standard, power steering and fast-ratio power steering were both optional.  If the AAR's with power steering were all fast-ratio I could see why buyers got confused.  Here's the link to that brochure page.
    http://www.challengertaregistry.com/photos/bulletins/brochure_pg3.jpg

     :cheers:
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    1971 'Cuda 340

    Offline whitewatersky

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #51 on: September 08, 2014 - 04:53:52 AM »
    "....the car went up on the lift for the service department to install the headers. Young Rich elected to stay in the car during this process..."

    and we get hauled over the coals by the govt if someone WALKS in our service dept nowadays...
     :faint:

    awesome story  :woo:
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    Plum Crazy auto T/A Challenger

    Offline Mopar Mitch

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #52 on: September 19, 2014 - 11:37:01 AM »
    Interesting story...  Thanks Barry!
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    Autocross/road racers go in deeper... and come out harder!

    See  MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, AUGUST 2006 ISSUE for featured article and details on my autocross T/A.

    Offline cardoctordave

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #53 on: August 10, 2018 - 09:32:27 PM »
    I am The David Bagwin of the Rafter TA saga.  Fact is that the reason for the sale of the car was that I was moving to Florida...In perfect health...Just to get away from the ice and snow!  As far as Jeffery Deutsch owing money on the Challenger; that is not at all true!  We were going to restore the TA and share the profits!  Everyone involved lost interest and the day to day grind of earning a living was more important than the project.  I am still in the car business, this time in Greenacres, Florida. 
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    Offline scf100

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    Re: The more complete, more accurate story of the "Rafter T/A" in MCG
    « Reply #54 on: September 15, 2018 - 07:56:27 PM »
    Quote from: cardoctordave on August 10, 2018 - 09:32:27 PM
    I am The David Bagwin of the Rafter TA saga.  Fact is that the reason for the sale of the car was that I was moving to Florida...In perfect health...Just to get away from the ice and snow!  As far as Jeffery Deutsch owing money on the Challenger; that is not at all true!  We were going to restore the TA and share the profits!  Everyone involved lost interest and the day to day grind of earning a living was more important than the project.  I am still in the car business, this time in Greenacres, Florida.


    Cool, thanks for chiming in......don’t miss NY huh? :bigsmile:
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    1970 Challenger R/T convertible 383…. 4-speed…3.91 suregrip

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