Author Topic: Hotchkis suspension parts  (Read 4681 times)

Offline Beck

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Hotchkis suspension parts
« on: October 28, 2008 - 06:57:27 PM »
check out the new parts Hotchkis Sport Suspension are making for E bodies.
zero bumpsteer UCAs and tie rods, sway bar packages etc...

http://www.hotchkis.net/p-827-70-dodge-challenger.aspx

http://www.musclecarblog.com/story-338-sema_2008_preview_hotchkis_performance_twin_challengers

sounds like good stuff, i like the idea of making the original setup work better without resorting to wholly different systems (that i can't afford)
what do you guys think?

pity about the sh!t photoshop job on the E-Max challenger...

cheers,
aaron




Offline 71chally416

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2008 - 07:02:17 PM »
Never seen an old Mope with over an inch of bump steer.
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Offline Hopalong

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2008 - 08:35:02 PM »
Neat looking parts, but I wondered about the bumpsteer claims as well.  Mopars have always had good suspension geometry, even the 30 yer old ones.  I'm sure that their parts work well, I just question the claimed improvments.
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Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008 - 04:17:43 AM »
I don't know much about the original bump steer claim, but they do make pretty awesome stuff. I already bought UCA's, LCA's and strut rods from CAP (also good stuff, just about ready to install it), but I'd definitely be interested in some sway bars if they make hollow sway bars as they have done in the past for other applications...

Also, is there anywhere on the website you can actually buy the stuff?

Offline HP2

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2008 - 07:37:58 AM »
I couldn't get the video to work,so I'm not sure what their claiming.

RE bump steer; In stock form with a stock alignment, most mopars only have .125 inches of bump steer at the far ends of suspension extension. Within the normal range of an inch up and an inch down, there is actually very little change in toe at all. Also, bump steer is inherent with any strut rod suspension. It is inevitible because the strut rods length causes it to move in a conflicting arc to the control arms. The further the suspension movement, the greater the change. The only way to truly eliminate bump steer is to use control arms the have triangulated mounting points in the same longitudal plane. Even the Hotchkiss design tie rod mounting points will have some bump steer at the extremes of travel. Granted, it is probably less than stock, but it will still have some. One thing most people tend to overlook as well is that bump steer can actually be used to your advantage in a mopar. As the suspension toes out, it actually increases the ackerman effect on the car which can create more favorable slip angles for the tires in tight cornering.

RE camber gain; Mopars naturally increase negative camber as the suspension compresses. This is in sharp contrast to a number of popular muscle era chevys that do the opposite. As a car corners and the body rolls, the front outside tire compresses, in order to maintain good contact, the tire must gain more negative camber is it travels to balance the contact patch against the body roll. By shortening the upper control arm, as Hotchkiss did with their odd looking mounting blocks, you increase this negative camber gain, considerably. I'm actually surprised no one has done this mod before. Coincidently, you can gain the same effect by installing taller spindles, aka the late B or FJM style, which also will net you a 3# weight loss per side.

I also noticed that by altering the upper control arm mounting points, they eliminated the anti-dive geometry. This may produce some exaggarated up and down movement of the nose under braking unless you are running some pretty beefy torsion bars. Most race vehicles don't have anti-dive built in to them because they have such large springs rates. Most stock vehicles have it to balance out the dive against the softer spring rates that most prefer for the street.

For hollow sway bars, check out Speedway Engineering's web site. They will require some fabrication to make mount and attach, but they are out there. Unlike the Hotchkiss design, SE's hollow bars can be easily swapped and the end links altered to produce the best balance and optimal rates when combined with each particular t-bar and leaf spring combo. But, you'll need to do the math to figure it all out.

Offline autoxcuda

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2008 - 05:45:30 PM »
Never seen an old Mope with over an inch of bump steer.


What kinds of numbers do you normally get when have put them on a bump steer gauge like the one in the video?

I count about 10 total 1" graduations on the hotchkis bumpsteer gauge in the video. They won't use the last 1" graduation. So I'm guessing they are using 4" compression and 4" extension for a total of 8" of travel.
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Offline boydsdodge

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2009 - 07:14:35 PM »
 :popcorn:
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Offline ajantics

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009 - 04:34:38 AM »
I am planning on ordering the front package including the sub frame connectors soon to complement the firmfeel sway bars, ss springs and new front&rear brakes I'm going to be installing. Has anyone else bit the bullet yet, or have any advice?
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Offline brads70

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009 - 12:39:41 PM »
Interesting posting!  :popcorn:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

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Offline jvike

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009 - 05:21:44 PM »
For hollow sway bars, check out Speedway Engineering's web site. They will require some fabrication to make mount and attach, but they are out there. Unlike the Hotchkiss design, SE's hollow bars can be easily swapped and the end links altered to produce the best balance and optimal rates when combined with each particular t-bar and leaf spring combo. But, you'll need to do the math to figure it all out.


XV Level II uses Speedway Engineering sway bars. Top quality parts!  :2thumbs:
http://www.1speedway.com/index.htm
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Offline ericindc

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2009 - 02:33:36 PM »
I have a question for the braintrust.  I've pretty much decided to go with the hotchkis setup for the front instead of the Alterkation or XV K frame/suspension packages. Mostly cause of cost. So my question is:

Hotchkis has numerous components, A-arms, sway bars, strut rods, & steering rods; can I install these piecemeal, or should I just do it at once?  I dont want to compromise safety by having mismatched stuff.

Thanks
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Offline boydsdodge

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009 - 07:29:15 PM »
I'd go as close to a matched set as you can.
Try calling them up and see if they will give you a deal on a total package, they gave me some good discounts just asking them.
Jackson from Toronto.

Offline HP2

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2009 - 08:34:26 AM »
You can replace things one at a time and not compromise safety. It is no different than if you replace them with stock pieces one at a time. They will not work as well as a total package, but you will acheive incremental gains with each new piece. Actually, one of the car mages did these exact thing a few months back and measure how much change each resulting piece brought to the table.

The biggest draw back to doing it piece meal is that you'll need to check alignment after almost each piece gets installed. Depending on prices in your area, that could easily add a few hundred bucks to the total cost.

Offline FY1Cuda

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2009 - 02:16:10 PM »
The biggest draw back to doing it piece meal is that you'll need to check alignment after almost each piece gets installed. Depending on prices in your area, that could easily add a few hundred bucks to the total cost.
My brother put the Hotchkis control arms and strut rods on to his Challenger and the first and only alignment cost $250.  The problem is that the heim joints can't be adjusted while they're in place, so you have to guess at the length, assemble it, and then check the alignment measurements. Then you have to take it apart to lengthen or shorten the control arm joints and then repeat the trial-and-error process.  He took the car into a shop that sets up race car suspensions, and they had all they could handle. The guys in a basic tire shop would definitely implode if they had to set the alignment on a Hotchkis-equipped car.

Offline brads70

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Re: Hotchkis suspension parts
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2009 - 03:30:29 PM »
I wonder about" life on the street" with rod ends?  I've built my own upper control arm before on a GM chassis and I switched the rod ends to teflon lined ones to avoid the noise, but they still transmitted bumps into the chassis. I understand for a race car but undecided about a street car. :dunno: I like my fillings were they are? :bigsmile:
Brad
1970 Challenger 451stroker/4L60 auto OD
Barrie,Ontario,Canada
Proud to own one of the best cars ever made!!!!!

My restoration thread 
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=59072.0
 My handling upgrade post
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=73985.0