ATTN: About Blueprint Engines

[imean340]

Just giving you guys a heads up about Blueprint crate motors.. My friend bought a blueprint 408 for his challenger and installed it a few months ago. Did everything right (he knows what he's doing, worked as a mechanic for a while). Never really beat on the car, just followed the break in instructions then cruised it. He practically drives the car daily, 7,000 miles later he started getting a lot of compression in the crank case, blowing oil out the dipstick tube/pcv ect... He compression tested it and all cyls were within 155-160 aside from #8 which was 60. heres the kicker.


He sends the motor to them, they tell him that ALL the second rings on the motor were broken and the top ring on #5 was broken. They said it's NOT covered on warranty and claim that it was due to a cold start without the choke open! Figure that one out!
They also said there was no cylinder damage. They want to charge him 700 to put it back together with new rings and now he must cover shipping. WTF are they trying to pull?

Thinking about it, we're pretty sure with the Keith Black hyperuetectic pistons they use they either screwed up the ring gap and the rings butted or they opened em up to  much when installing them.

After sitting on it for a few days, he calls back and tells them flat out that cold starts wont cause all the second rings to break, and the guy on the phone tells him this time that it was detonation. Yet amazingly, the pistons are fine. Again they want to charge him 700 to have it put back together with new rings with him paying shipping.  The saga continues...

Here is his thread on moparts
http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=QuestionAnswer&Number=4781548&Searchpage=1&Main=4779171&Words=+540challenger&topic=&Search=true#Post4781548

[BIGSHCLUNK]

I'm sure you can get a few qualified opions here! ... but the whole thing just really sucks! 

[Chryco Psycho]

I bought 1 Mopar crate engine , never again
 Not sure about Blueprint but user damge breaking all the rings unless it was severely detonated just doesn`t add up to me

[Moparal]

Did they send the blueprints with the engine?  Blueprints should be for that particular engine and no other.  It sounds like they are jerking your chain anyways to me.

[moper]

Theres a thread on Moparts on it. I don't agree with their findings (user abuse), but holding them 100% responsible with 7K of good running doesn't feel right to me either. It sounds like it was a parts failure or assembly issue that needed a certain set of circumstances to cause a failure. Like a ring gap a little tight, but fine unless that piston got really hot... That kind of thing. There should be some common ground there. I'm no fan of thier choice in parts, but budget always wins over sense.

[imean340]

Theres a thread on Moparts on it. I don't agree with their findings (user abuse), but holding them 100% responsible with 7K of good running doesn't feel right to me either. It sounds like it was a parts failure or assembly issue that needed a certain set of circumstances to cause a failure. Like a ring gap a little tight, but fine unless that piston got really hot... That kind of thing. There should be some common ground there. I'm no fan of thier choice in parts, but budget always wins over sense.

Moper, I understand what you're saying...I worked at a speed shop for a few years before I became a corporate mechanic and I can tell you what they would have done if a motor came back after 7000. They'd do all they could to try to help the situation, probably eat the labor costs but not pay for parts....however, my speed shop (as with most) made no warranty claims.

Point is, don't offer such an unrealistic warranty (50k miles!) if you don't plan on backing it. Sure, MOST of the time if a motor lasts 7,000 miles and something breaks it wasn't the builders fault but then why offer a warranty past that point? Plain and simple, it's a scam at worst, horrible buisness practice at the very best. People chose them because of a 50,000 mile warranty but they'll tell you it's not their problem when something breaks after a certain amount of miles...

Not to mention, the whole broken ring thing is real fishy considering the compression test results he got. It's not consistent with anything they say and he had to wade through a lot of BS excuses before he finally got an explanation that MAY be feasable (them telling him that possibly they are defective rings...if you read the moparts thread link I posted).

Luckily my friend knows enough to not buy the first explanation they gave though, as im sure there are many people out there who bought their engines who would not know better. Even if it was just miscommunication like they say, that's pretty crappy customer service as that mistake could have cost him $1000 dollars to pay for the rebuilt if he did not better than believe it.

sucks to see this happen though. He drives the car A LOT. I know the whole reason he went crate instead of building it himself is because of the warranty and peace of mind. Figured he wouldn't have to be wrenching on this one all the time. We never get our two challengers running at the same time lol

[nivvy]

Im curious as to how vague there 50,000 mile warranty is......... who would give a 50,000 mile warranty anyway that alone would scare me. 

[moper]

imean, I meant no disrespect. you were in the business, we're on the same page there. I do think it's a defective part (giving them the benefit of the dount). I was not aware of the 50K warranty. I wouldnt expect a 4" arm engine to go much more than 50K...lol. I figure after a year, if it hasnt died, I'm good..lol. All rebuilders offer warrantees that are a load of crap. Mainly because it's very hard to discern what failed first, and by that point, the engine is in their hands. People wonder why I'm against a crate engine.. It ain't because it's more money for a special build... If they did offfer a 50K, I agree they should take care of it. No questions asked.

[LAA66]

 50K MILE WARRENTY? I could blow a KB engine (or any other for that matter) in the first 1000 miles. Actually I did back in 79 or so. Threw a rod after missing a shift. How can anyone warrant that?

[imean340]

Moper, no disrespect taken. Wasn't trying to come off as defensive, just trying to point out their flaw with the whole warranty thing.

LAA66, they don't include problems caused by the user (something like a thrown rod, worn rings from fuel washdown, or a broken ring lands from detonation obviously wouldn't apply). But with any problem that MAY be their fault on assembly (such as stretching the rings out too much when installing them or not using the proper end gap)  SHOULD be covered. What would a 50,000 mile warranty be good for if they didn't cover such things. If they only want to cover obvious engine building flaws that will present themselves right away, then don't offer such a long warranty.

As far as a defective part, i'm sorry but I feel like that's a cover up. It's too easy for them to pass the blame onto the parts manufacturer... Sounds like a clear cut case of them being at fault and not admitting it. Even in the case of a defective part, THEY pick the parts. Guys who don't know much about motors and what parts are good expect that the company building it DOES. Maybe the parts they use are hardly ever defective and are good parts, if that's the case...for a company so big, why not just eat the labor costs and put the thing back together...settle the $$$ for the broken rings with the parts company if they really believe it's their fault.

[71chally416]

One thing I can think of that can break rings that way is reving the motor too much with no load, like in park or neutral. If this particular guy has a habit of doing that, I don't know.... 

[imean340]

Na, he REALLY babies this thing.I think one of the few times he even got on the car for more than a few seconds was when he pulled up next to a new SRT8 challenger and gave it a run. He keeps the RPM's very low even when under load. Can't see him being the type to just free rev the crap out of it. He's not nearly as hard on his machine as I am with mine LOL The higher piston speeds of a stroker may warrant better rings than whatever blueprint is using? Although it's not like this motor is running a monstrous cam with a huge powerband. The fact that it's only the second rings to me anyway point out that it's not detonation, not overrevving and not heat related in any way other than detonation. I really think it has got to be installer error or a defective part but that's just me, im no expert.

[moper]

Even in the case of a defective part, THEY pick the parts. Guys who don't know much about motors and what parts are good expect that the company building it DOES. Maybe the parts they use are hardly ever defective and are good parts, if that's the case...for a company so big, why not just eat the labor costs and put the thing back together...settle the $$$ for the broken rings with the parts company if they really believe it's their fault.



This was why I said it should be taken care of. Giving the benefit of the doubt that the ring wasn't damaged on installation (Seen it, done it), if there was a "bad batch" I'd think again,the rings to either side of that one might also be a prblem, and the manufacturer would know about it...  I'm picky, and I pick the parts in the engines I build. At minimum, I "ok" the choices based on my experience, the cost factor, and most important the use factor. In other words, I get paid to make solid choices, and if they do break, it is my issue. If I spec a budget build, and the guy sticks a fogger system on it and it breaks, not my issue...lol. Most shops, if you follow thier build recipe, and use thier supplied parts, the warranty is honored. If you bring in your own, or tell them to use a cheaper piece, the warranty is forfeited, just for this reason.

[femtnmax]

Sounds like a bum deal. Being a mechanic, maybe he shoulda torn it down himself.  Hindsite is easy I know.
ON a side note, not to steal this thread:  A very reputable shop in this neck of the woods, produces many fine race engines.  Well they put a guys truck engine together, sent it to him.  The guy is turning it over to install the distributor, theres this clunk clunk clunk feeling.  the pistons domes were hitting the cylinder heads.  I doubt the engine would have lasted long during the cam break in at 2000 rpm.   All the signs were there, piston domes sticking obviously higher than the thickness of a head gasket, and a decked block.  I guess cause it wasn't a race engine they figured no mental thought was required.  Sure dropped my opinion of DK motorsports in Helena MT.

[71chally416]

I agree he shoulda tore it down himself.  In the likely event the gaps were insufficent it would have been plain to see the shiny spots where they were butting. With the evidence in their possession, you're screwed.