Where do I start?

[macsdaddy]

So a little background, I have a 74 challenger with the originl 318.  Sadly the block is cracked so I have decided to pull the motor and start again.  Since the power plant is going to be a significant chunk of change and it can have an effect on so many other things on the car I am trying to plan early.  I have started studying up on motors but all of the different options/builders and different places to buy are making my head spin.  So  would be fantastic. 
This is the plan for the car, this car will mostly be the wifes driver (on nice days) it is not beneath her to  when the opportunity presents itself, not to mention I would like a car with a good bit of grunt.  I want to stay small block and I know some mean motoros have been born from small blocks.  The existing tranny is automatic, do I keep it that way?  I have no issue and am kind of palnning to upgrade suspension, the rear end, put larger wheels and tires on and upgrade to all disks.
So do I have it built from scratch?  If so who should build it?  (please understand in your recco. I am not made completly of money)  If I build do I find all my parts or does the builder do that?  Am I better off with a crate?  And again who do I look to for that.  I feel like I have looked at millions of sources for both but would like to know who has what experiences with who.  Thanks in advance..

[RDF]

You've come to the right place!  People here will surely get you started and heading in the right direction.

My :

You want to stay SB so I say either a 340 or 360.  I've heard of some mean things that can be done to both, but more-so with a 340.  A good block shouldn't be hard to find (or expensive, see craigslist) and a bore of .30 should suffice(sp?).  A mild cam will get your "grunt" you are looking for and the top end can be close to stock (with newer parts).  I would build this rather than a crate motor...crate motors tend to have a high failure rate lately and you don't always know who or how they were put together.

As far as the transmission goes, you can stick with the auto or go stick.....choice is yours, but if you go stick, be sure you get the necessary parts and such to do the conversion.  Auto will be fine with a few adjustments and some new parts.  I've got a 904 for my 360 and I kick the crap out of it weekly and it holds up great.

Do you have an idea as to the total amount of $$$ you want to spend?  That can help with determining what type of motor to build and where to spend the big $$$ first. 

[matt63]

I would definitely start with a budget and perhaps a desired performance level for the engine and car in general.  Obviously staying 318/auto will be the least expensive.  There is nothing wrong with a warmed over 318 as a street machine. After that it is just a matter of money.  We all have to work within our means.

[NoMope Greg]

If it were me, this is what I'd do:

Look for a 360 - either a rebuildable core out of a junkyard truck or an already built engine from Craigslist.  Crate motors are hit-and-miss - some are good and some turn out to be junk.  If you can build your own engine, especially with the help of an experienced hand, you'll be more familiar with how the whole thing goes together and what can go wrong.  There are lots of books available on engine building, including a few written specifically for the small block Mopar.  I'm building my first engine - a 440 - and I've learned a ton.  It can be frustrating, but there's lots of help available on here.

As to the transmission, I'd leave it an automatic.  Changing it to a manual means you have to source all the parts to do the conversion (although there are kits), plus you have to cut up the floor to put in either a hump for the 4 speed linkage or (I think) a new tunnel for one of the Keisler 5/6 speed conversions.  If money is an object, there are better things to spend it on.  One thing to consider - if this is to be her car, what does your wife want?  

[macsdaddy]

I think I am leaning in the direction of the 360, if I buy a 'used' engine to become a builder does it matter where it comes from?  meaning should I look for certian years certian cars blah blah...  As for what she wants, that would be a motor that she can turn the key not worry about a thing and tromp the pedal and laugh at the loser at the light.  As for budget I am not 100% sure, the sky is not the limit but I am not gonna do it on the cheap either what should a good target number be?

[NoMope Greg]

I think I am leaning in the direction of the 360, if I buy a 'used' engine to become a builder does it matter where it comes from?  meaning should I look for certian years certian cars blah blah...  As for what she wants, that would be a motor that she can turn the key not worry about a thing and tromp the pedal and laugh at the loser at the light.  As for budget I am not 100% sure, the sky is not the limit but I am not gonna do it on the cheap either what should a good target number be?

You're asking us to set your budget? 

Seriously, it depends on what condition the car is in now and what your wife is willing to drive and how much work you can do yourself and how long you're willing to take doing it.  If the car would be a driver now if it had an engine, you could be rolling for less than $5000, then do the other upgrades as time and money allow.  Any photos of the car - rust, interior?  Does it have disc brakes on it now or drums and needs to be upgraded?  How about the suspension - are the bushings all worn out and does it need to be rebuilt?  The electrical system - is it in good shape or is it a rat chewed mess or a jumble of splices?  Is the trans that's in it any good or do you know?  You can see that there are a lot of questions to answer. 

What I did with my car was to walk around the car with a notebook and write down everything that needed to be restored or replaced.  WARNING - this may make you depressed!    Then I divided it up into things that needed to be done to make the car drivable again and what could wait.  Then I started figuring out what I wanted and what it would cost.  This will turn out to be more than you think, so include extra money in your budget for cost overruns.  I budgeted about $6000 (including money I spent years ago) and think I have about $8000 into now and it's still not running, but what mostly remains is sweat equity - building stuff and installing it.  However, my car, while it could use some rust repair and paint, isn't going to get it for awhile.  I can't afford to have it done (at least $10,000 and I have very little rust) and for me to do it myself isn't feasible right now.  If yours needs lots of work to get it roadworthy - well, it's usually less expensive to buy someone else's restoration, especially right now.  Believe me, I think about that all the time.

[the_engineers]

I think I am leaning in the direction of the 360, if I buy a 'used' engine to become a builder does it matter where it comes from?  meaning should I look for certian years certian cars blah blah...  As for what she wants, that would be a motor that she can turn the key not worry about a thing and tromp the pedal and laugh at the loser at the light.  As for budget I am not 100% sure, the sky is not the limit but I am not gonna do it on the cheap either what should a good target number be?

Early 360's (1971-1973?) are reputed to be from the same castings as 340's, meaning that they can be bored more than later 360's.  340 has a stock bore of 4.04" while 360's have a stock bore of 4.00".  As for trucks vs. cars, no meangiful differences...a truck 360 oil pan will not work in a car, but I'm guessing that you'll probably replace something like that anyway.

As far as a recipe...if you build, a 9.0:1 360 with a cam that is in the range of 276 - 284 degrees with roughly 0.430" - 0.500" of lift, you'll have a motor that will start and idle well, but still have a lopey sound to it.

Use iron heads and put in 2.02"/1.60" valves.  I don't think J heads will be worth it for the power you're looking to make, but they won't hurt if you can find a set (cheap).  Add electronic ignition and an upgraded alternator.  A 650-750 cfm carb should be plenty.  This should make 320 - 370 HP depending on parts/pieces/luck.

Keep your 904 automatic and put in a mild stall converter (no higher than 2700 rpm).  One thing that will really wake up a car is gearing.  If you're looking for QUICK with minimal highway driving, put in 3.91's.  If the car will see a mix of in-town and highway, put in 3.55's.

I did the 11.75" disc brake upgrade on my fronts and put in a kit from SSBC for disks on the rears.  Very easy, fairly cheap.

Hope I'm not sounding like a know-it-all, just that this is a fairly standard (and generic) recipe for a nice, driveable car.  Other opinions may differ.

[the_engineers]

...As for budget I am not 100% sure, the sky is not the limit but I am not gonna do it on the cheap either what should a good target number be?

Sorry, missed the second part of that.  It'll really depend on what you can do vs. what you have to pay for, how lucky you get at a swap meet vs. buying at full-retail, etc.

The engine I described could be bought as a crate motor for $3500 or assembled with swap meet finds and sale items for $800.

[macsdaddy]

engineers..thanks for the reply, that gives me something to start with for sure.  As for the pics question there is a pile in the newbie section that I posted.  I plan on doing the majority of the work myself, I think final body and paint will be left to the pros and I had pretty much decided the engine and tranny would be the same.

[the_engineers]

engineers..thanks for the reply, that gives me something to start with for sure.  As for the pics question there is a pile in the newbie section that I posted.  I plan on doing the majority of the work myself, I think final body and paint will be left to the pros and I had pretty much decided the engine and tranny would be the same.

Not to oversimplify, but an engine like this should be very simple, and is probably a good "1st Time Build".  You're not going to have any significant custom work to figure out, so grab a book like this...
http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Small-Block-Mopar-Engines/dp/0895861283
...and tackle this yourself!

[macsdaddy]

Hey, thanks, this is one project that has made me somewhat nervous but I will check it out, would love to give it shot.

[matt63]

If you are looking for recipe's for small block builds I found some at Compcams and Hughes Engines websites that were useful.

[Chryco Psycho]

I agree with above there are a # of good 360 builds , if you get the later block 88-92 you will get the 308 heads & the provision for a hyd roller cam & you can reuse the lifters in the block , if go newer yet you get into the Magnum engines they will still bolt in but a lot changes , they were all EFI & sepentine belt drive with reverse rotation  water pumps our local wrecker charges $150 for any complete engine
the 360 will have more torque than other small blocks but you do need a different torque converter & left engine mount , if you go with a std flat tappet hyd cam Engle & Lunati have some great grinds with over .500 lift that still idle well & create enough vacuum for powerbrakes etc

[heminut]

I agree with the 360 build. I had a 74 Dodge van that had a 318 yeras ago and when it dropped a valve I built a 360 for it. It was just a good basic build with approx 9to1 pistons and a mild hydraulic cam, and I put a factory cast iron four barrel spreadbore intake manifold on it with a quadrajet carb. It idled great and had plenty of power. That van weighed well over 4000 lbs. and I could hit 120 MPH with it at will.

[femtnmax]

I have the same car as you, also planning to go the 360 route, although the 318 is easier to find parts for.  I'm going to swap in a 4-speed, but the cost to fix the "good" 4 -speed trany I bought was way more than just buying it.   It turned over good, shifted into all gears, but I always tear down everything for inspection.  The result:  a piece of sh... that needed $$ to fix.
With some help, you could build the engine yourself and have fun doing it, or be real careful and find a shop with great references.
I used to have a 340 duster with auto trany, thermoquad carb, OEM disc/drum brakes and factory electronic ignition.  Ran the crap out of it for 130,000 miles.  That 727 is a tough trany, and I've heard good about the 904 with the right parts.   Sold the duster to an oil rig worker headed for Alaska.  Saw him years later, he said everywhere the duster went was at 100 mph, finally cracked the frame apart pounding the alcan highway.
So in conclusion, IMHO, factory disc drum brakes would be fine, even 318's can be built to go fast if your on a budget.
I don't have the deep pockets either, like lots of folks around seem to have.  I will admit the cost of going thru a Challenger is more than expected.  Its like building a house.  You better look at the expenses every week or its easy to far exceed the budget.