Author Topic: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors  (Read 10879 times)

Offline mrob

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Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« on: December 02, 2008 - 02:05:33 PM »
Hi,
I'm really considering installing subframe connectors on my 73 Cuda and I'm wondering if anyone here has installed the Auto Rust Technicians connectors (P/N ART-21-1)? They look like nice connectors and have a slot in them for the parking brake cable. They're also cut to length so that all you have to do is weld them in. Here's a link: http://www.autorust.com/k_21.html.
Please let me know what your experience with these connectors has been.
Thanks.




Offline MyMopar

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2008 - 02:35:22 PM »
Those will work nice for you, however have you looked at these?
http://www.uscartool.com/Eframeconn/index.html

Molded to the floor pan for a more stock look, more than likely a lot stronger than the ones you were looking at.  Downside is it would be a lot more work and requires some minor tweaking.
1969 (OO===]|[===OO)
1973 (OO/=====\OO) <---SOLD
1997 (O|||||O) <---SOLD

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Offline mrob

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2008 - 02:47:47 PM »
MyMopar,
Yes, I've considered the UScartool connectors, but like you said, they're harder to install because you have to tweak them to fit. Another consideration is ease of installation: my car is not on a rotisserie and any welding will be done laying under the car. So connectors that only need to be welded to the T-bar crossmember and rear frame rails are preferable.

Offline 422STROKER

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2008 - 03:35:16 PM »
I plan on using them on my 70, they looked good in person when I saw them.

Tom :2thumbs:
Tom
12.77 @ 108.87 15" Street Drag radial tires 3.23 gear

Offline A R T

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008 - 10:04:02 AM »
And, the best part is,
Auto Rust technicians is a member on this board
So, you say ?
Well, let us know your from Cuda-challenger forum, and you get a 10% discount !!  :cooldancing:

A lot of people think that the US car toll ones are stronger. Thats not accurate. They do look a lot cleaner when installed. They are constructed out of a flat length of steel, then bent into the shape of a U. They are then welded to the floor, which closes off the box. That means two bends are all thats creating strength. The floor pan was NOT designed to be part of the structural assembly.
Ours are made from .120 wall box tubing, mitered to fit under the floor, with no cutting or welding to the floor pan.  Anyone that has done any major welding work under these classics can vouch for what fun it is to weld to an old floor pan. Its like welding to aluminum foil, old, thin, and usually porous. Never mind the fit is not usually close, due to manufacturings generous tolerances.

If your looking for maximun strength, consider installing a set of torque boxes at the same time.

Thanks for considering using our company's products, we appreciate your business.  :cheers:

Dave
Nothing to see here folks, Its just a Bluesmobile.

Offline Chlngrcrzy

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008 - 11:49:58 AM »
And, the best part is,
Auto Rust technicians is a member on this board
So, you say ?
Well, let us know your from Cuda-challenger forum, and you get a 10% discount !!  :cooldancing:

A lot of people think that the US car toll ones are stronger. Thats not accurate. They do look a lot cleaner when installed. They are constructed out of a flat length of steel, then bent into the shape of a U. They are then welded to the floor, which closes off the box. That means two bends are all thats creating strength. The floor pan was NOT designed to be part of the structural assembly.
Ours are made from .120 wall box tubing, mitered to fit under the floor, with no cutting or welding to the floor pan.  Anyone that has done any major welding work under these classics can vouch for what fun it is to weld to an old floor pan. Its like welding to aluminum foil, old, thin, and usually porous. Never mind the fit is not usually close, due to manufacturings generous tolerances.

If your looking for maximun strength, consider installing a set of torque boxes at the same time.

Thanks for considering using our company's products, we appreciate your business.  :cheers:

Dave

What would be your shipping costs out here to washington state? 

Offline mopardave

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008 - 01:36:42 PM »
We used the us car tool. had to tweek them but they are nice once they are in.
Mopar Dave
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70 FK5 Challenger RT/SE
70 FC7 70 Road Runner - Sold
71 FM3 Challenger RT
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Offline A R T

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008 - 02:33:41 PM »
We used the us car tool. had to tweek them but they are nice once they are in.

Sure, they do look good, I have agreed with that since John started making them.
My only complaint is from a structural perspective. No one will convince me there is any significant strength with them
Nothing to see here folks, Its just a Bluesmobile.

Offline mopardave

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008 - 03:10:24 PM »
when welded solid they would lessen the body twist or flex.
Mopar Dave
Rosevillemoparts.com

if I haven't replied to your post or PM email me direct    dradcliffe@mikeriehls.com




70 FK5 Challenger RT/SE
70 FC7 70 Road Runner - Sold
71 FM3 Challenger RT
71 Cuda (in process for restoration)
73 F8 Challenger
1990 XJ - sold
2000 Dakota Quad Cab
2010 Ram Crew Cab 2500 4wd - sold
2015 Ram Crew Cab 2500 4wd Black Out

Offline cudadave72

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008 - 10:09:57 PM »
I called A R T this morning. Very nice people!! I'll be ordering some connectors from them in a week or two!!! :2thumbs:
1972 BS23 H code Cuda, B5 blue, 340 streched to 416 cu in, 727 w/ 8 3/4 rear, 7.23 in the 1/8 mile and 11.38@117mph in the 1/4 on drag radials   Under restoration! Coming soon... 440cuin R3 Indy SMALL BLOCK monster!!!!


Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008 - 10:37:32 PM »
They both look great to me but the one that welds all along the floor pan seems that it would add significantly more rigidity because it in incorporated into the entire structure. The other one would only be welded at each extreme end and even though it would more than do the job it would still seem to have more potential for flex.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
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Offline 30below

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2008 - 09:10:30 AM »
Hey,i bought front and rear frame caps last year.Discount?

Offline mrob

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2008 - 09:13:07 AM »
Just wanted to let everyone know that I decided to buy the A.R.T subframe connectors. I called them yesterday and spoke to Dave (really nice guy). When I install the connectors this winter, I'll take some pics so that you can see how everything fits.
Thanks for all of your replies!

Offline A R T

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2008 - 09:58:21 AM »
Thats the misconception with those connectors. If you were to do a STAAD analysis, you would find out real quick they do not have the same strength. Its simple really. Take a section of flat steel thats .093 thick, 6 inches wide by 36 inches long, put 2 @ 90 degree bends in it so you have an open channel. Grab each end and twist it opposite ways. It will bend. Not a lot, maybe 1/8" either side, thats 1/4" along a 3 foot span.
Do the same with a 3 foot length of square tubing. No flex, no twist. Sure, welding the full length along the floor will help reduce the twist, but, you are putting the primary load into an area that was not designed for it. Plus you are using thinner material (.063 or less ) to "box" in the channel, also you are welding it, which is not as strong as a D.O.M. tubing. My observations is the formed connectors are not very accurate as to the way they fit up to the pan, and are usually NOT welded solid along the floor pan, but welded wherever they happen to fit good. Thats ok for a simple solution, but will not provide maximum strength.

Now look at it from a front to rear forces applied scenario. Think about what is happening when a car is launched, there is twisting forces as well as beaming loads being transfered instantly, every time you shift the loads are again transfered. Every time you brake hard loads are transferred again, this time in an opposite direction. There is an awful lot of stuff going on underneath there that no one realizes.

Any engineer will tell you, square is were the strength is. The forces transfered  follow a direct line. If the reinforcements are not perpendicular or squared off, then the direct loads will not be absorbed and transfered equally amongst the  structural components.
I am surprised by the pictures showing the connectors on the cuda. Look at the line the connectors follow, definitely not square to the rocker, which is your main structural rib.
If you want maximum strength, install a set of torque boxes while your under there. Its what the factory determined was a great way to help the structure spread the loads equally throughout the unitized construction.

Look, anything on the bottom of these cars will help significantly. I doesn't matter if you buy them from me, from John at Us Cartool, or put an old piece of bed frame under there, but put something, it will help significantly.

One of The benefits of using my connectors, is you can put them on after your done with the build, you do not need to remove the interior so you can weld to the floor pan. ( like mrob is doing)

Its all good.   :ylsuper:

mrob, thanks for the order, I look forward to seeing your pictures when you do the install. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to give me a call anytime.

30below, next time you call and order any parts, ask if there are any discounts available. I could have helped if it was recent, but last year. ? . ? . ? . ? . . . . .

Dave

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Nothing to see here folks, Its just a Bluesmobile.

Offline 422STROKER

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Re: Auto Rust Technicians subframe connectors
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2008 - 06:18:58 PM »
I want the double discount.

Tom :stirpot:


By tdavist, shot with DSC-W55 at 2008-08-20
Tom
12.77 @ 108.87 15" Street Drag radial tires 3.23 gear