How can I get my chally to handle as good as my 86 Toyota pickup?

[priderocks]

Well, my pickup doesn't handle that good, but my Chally just feels like a slug. Hey, maybe it is a slug. I have front and rear sway bars, new T/A's (didn't know what else to put on it), and all-new front end components. But everything is on the chopping block. Need a good shock recomendation, too. What can I change on this car to glue it down to the road? Steering stuff? I'm open to anything.

[GoodysGotaCuda]

Up the torsion bars, better shocks, either poly mounts, upgraded sway bars, wider/better tires, upgrading rim diameter for less sidewall deflection, better brakes, chassis stiffening, tubular upper control arms with more positive caster, plenty of things! (bfg radial t/as are pretty bad for handling in today's standards)

All depends on the budget, you will get drastic results if you were to go with an aftermarket front crossmember that uses coil-overs, rack & pinion, and all the good stuff. Set you back about $1500 if I recall. Haven't heard any unhappy customers though..

[priderocks]

Goody,
Let's start with the cheaper stuff. What would you specifically recommend for shocks, different tires, chassis stiffening?

[LAA66]

 You must remember there is alot of forward weight with a big V-8 sitting in front. A good balance is critical to sticking to the road. As a start, what springs are you running?

[HP2]

Well, lets get your definition of good handling. I'd say something better than your pickup and at least as good as a modern sedan? Fast and quick can be qualified on a drag strip, but handling and ride quality are pretty subjective and can mean different things to different people. We can get your car to feel like a true performance vehicle, but if you think a Vette or Viper ride too harshly, then you certainly don't want your E body to be similar. I also figure you don't want old school Cadillac mush either.

Also, what do you want to do for budget? $100, $500, $1000, $10,000?

How much can you do yourself? Got basic hand tools or a decent sized box? Do you have a service manual? Can you remove/press bushings or are you farming that out?

Cheap, well that is somewhat relative based on budget. Cheap shocks for a $500 build are a whole lot different than cheap shocks for a $10,000 build.

1st things 1st and probably the cheapest change you can make; dump the OEM alignment specs and get something more in the realm of modern specifications. Set the ride height where you want it, tell the shop not to alter it and ask them for; Caster-as much positive as your shop can get while balanced against negative .5 camber and 1/16 inch toe in. This should make a very noticeable difference over the stock alignment specs. Cheap fix here for arond $50 depending on shop rates in your area. Another cheap item, Moog offset upper control arm bushings for $50 to get more caster.

Shocks, well, good shocks can make a otherwise stock set up feel really good. However, bad shocks can make an excellent collection of parts feel worse than lousy. Shocks are to the suspension what cams are to engines; the are the core of it all. Some of the best shocks for all around conditions that allow you to test and experiment with producing the ride and feel you want are QA1. They are bolt in, they are adjustable, and they are under $150 each.  These will work with whatever sized components you have under there and can grow with whatever changes you want to add in the future. But, again, budget may dictate otherwise of you want to look at a whole package. Stock or slightly larger than stock set up can use Edelbrocks around $80 each. KYBs at $45 are decent if you car weigh upwards of 4000# or has worn out components. I don't care for them much and would take off the shelf Gabriels over them.

What size are the sway bars, t-bars, and leaf count? Knowing where you are now will help us determine where you need to go. Other items such as engien family, steel or fiberglass body components, etc...

[priderocks]

HP2, your definition of good handling is what I'm after. To be honest, if I were running a pylon course I think my Suburban might do better than the Chally. Not sure. OK, the car is a totally stock 70 Challenger R/T 383 4-speed with stock torsion bars and stock front sway bar. I have added a stock factory rear sway bar. All steel (no f'glass) components. New KYB front shocks, PST rubber (not poly) front end components. Rear leaf springs are new heavy springs from ESPO.

I can do all work myself except front end alignment. I want to keep the wheels I have: 15x7 rallye fronts, 15x8 rears. I don't car for a soft ride- i'd like firm but not teeth-rattling.  I am not out to make this a road race car, and the car is never going to see a dragstrip. The car just feels squirrley, mushy, sloppy to me. Sorry I can't come up with any more precise Motor Trend-y terms to describe the way the car handles. First changes I would try would be to replace shocks, tires, add torque boxes or whatever chassis modifications are necessary. Second level mods might be to change out torsion bars, steering box (my stock box has been rebuilt), etc. Budget? A couple grand. But I don't want to do expensive labor intensive stuff that gives minimal or unnoticeable improvements, like I suspect tubular control arms would do.
Maybe I'm just trying to get blood from a turnip.

[MoparCar]

I respect HP2's comments.... it's all relative....

[71chally416]

The best handling/feeling Mope I ever drove was a '74 Challenger Ralley(?) that I put an exhaust system on. 360 car with stock dual sway bars and some good sized tires. Maybe it was the alignment?  And the small block E's handle way better than the big block cars. At least all the ones I've owned. If you have a stock 383 with cast iron intake and a 4 speed that's a bunch of weight on the front end. Moving the battery into the trunk is good because it moves all that weigh from the very front to the very rear and doesn't cost much to do. An aluminum water pump housing and Intake would also be a good move along with all the things already mentioned like better shocks, but don't expect miracles. It's 40 YO technology. As for trucks handling good I had a '79 Dodge powerwagon that handled like it was on rails. The steering was vague as hell, but the tires were so big and spread so far apart I could hang with Vettes around corners      

[Roppa440]

For a 383 I would probably try fitting stock 440/Hemi torsion bars (0.92"). If your rear springs are beefed up and you have added a 3/4" rear sway bar then I would also try a bigger front sway bar. Maybe 1-1/8" diameter.

After making changes to your suspension you really should test the car to see if it tends to understeer or oversteer. I suspect at the moment you will have massive oversteer problems. Beefing the front suspension up will balance that out again.

To test the car drive in a circle. Something about 50 to 100 feet diameter (large empty parking lot). Slowly increase your speed until either it starts to understeer or oversteer. You want to aim for just a slight amount of understeer. But not too much.

[LAA66]

 Yeah, that was my first thought Dave, he has weak springs in front. Kicking the caster out will help with the "squirrely" feel also. Those are both relativly cheap and easy and will provide definite results.

[HP2]

The easy answer for a couple of grand is to call XV and order their level 1 kit. That combined with a new alignment will produce day/night results compared to your old set up, even if you stick with 15" tires and steel wheels. The great thing about their kit is the high end shocks they use that are tuned to the combo.

You can put together the basic pieces of the XV level 1 kit for around $1500 if you shop around. List would be something like this;
1.12 torsion bars, $300
1.125 front sway bar, $150
Mopar oval track rear springs, or someother zero-1 inch arch spring around 120# rate, $225
spring hangers for oval track springs, $75
Adjustable QA1 shocks  or fixed rate Konis, $600+
subframe connectors or torque boxes if you prefer the factory look $150
Poly strut rod bushings (might as well if your replacing t-bars) $50
new alignment $50

You want to firm up the strut rod bushings while things are apart. Even if you use rubber bushings everywhere else, you want the poly strut bushings to reduce alignment movement during braking and accelleration.

Couple of additional inexpensive tricks;
Moog offset bushings gain more caster for only $50 compared to $300 for tubular A arms.
FJM spindle conversion get aditioanl caster, additional camber gain, and lighter weight for around $50

Certainly you can go above and beyond this with tubular arms, aluminum tie rod sleeves, etc. and dump even more money into it all. Also, lightweight brakes, hubs, and wheels go a long way towards improvbement along with the increased sleection in rubber afforded a 17" rim, but that will really blow your budget.

[340_6pak]

I have a 73 challenger, 340, 6 pak, TCI tranny, and I am VERY interested in this thread. I am in the process of restoration, and now I am ready to do suspension upgrades/refurb. My challenger has the handling of a ski boat. My question is that since I have the small block, can I take the above advice/suggestions as being applicable to my situation as well, and I would like to stay with 15 inch wheels unless there is a compelling reason to goto 17's.

Thanks;

[drewcrane]

its just money! spend it and do it :2thumbs:there is alot of suspension parts to chose from,and many different setups to go with

[LAA66]

 Drewcrane would know, he's got one fast, handling, machine. 

  HP2, that really make sense using poly bushings on the strut. I never thought about it but that is not a place you want or need any cushion. I plan to use rubber bushing for most of my front end rebuild, mainly because of vibration transfer. Any other tips with this?

 If it were me priderocks, go with the offset bushings prior to an alignment. Stock bushings won't come close to +3 caster you want. You will pay twice again at the shop to get there.  Besides money, how much modification to your car from original factory is another consideration. If you save everything and don't do cutting or welding it can easily go back.

[priderocks]

Can anyone give me specific info on the offset bushings from Moog, part numbers or ?