Any fighter pilots out there?

Author Topic: Any fighter pilots out there?  (Read 6074 times)

Offline priderocks

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Any fighter pilots out there?
« on: December 11, 2008 - 07:52:50 PM »
Most of you have probably heard of the F18 that crashed into a couple of houses in San Diego. The plane was carrier based, and lost one engine over the ocean. It was deemed too risky to try a carrier landing, so they brought him in.

At first I was miffed the pilot didn't "go down with the ship", staying with the plane in hopes of at least seeing it dumped into a street instead of bailing out and letting it land willy-nilly wherever. Then someone pointed out to me these things don't glide. I was under the impression all planes did. I was told that when you lose all engine power in these things, you have no more control (I assume the controls are all hydraulic with no "backup" system). If that's the case, the F18 with both engines out is a flying casket, so you might as well save yourself.

From my private pilot days, I remember the Cessna 150 had a 6:1 (I think) glide ratio. If you lost power at 5000 feet AGL, you had like a couple of days to pick a spot to set it down. I remember having to land one without power in an Illinois cornfield.

So, are all jet fighters (and I guess the big commercial jets too) uncontrollable with engines out?




Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008 - 07:58:53 PM »
If what you say is true then they should have just ditched the plane in the ocean somewhere and not done such a risky thing as trying to bring it in for a landing over a residential neighborhood.
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Offline priderocks

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008 - 08:00:33 PM »
Exactly. What idiot decided to bring in a known problematic aircraft in over a residential neighborhood?

Offline LAA66

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008 - 08:11:21 PM »
 My understanding is the pilot was following orders as to where to fly (base). Not when to bail though. That would seem to be a situational call. :angelwings:

Offline go-fish

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008 - 08:21:57 PM »
I blame the military. They are bad people. They are killing all the Iraqis and now thier thirst for blood has come home to roost.
The plane more than likely took off fron the Ronald Reagan and tried to make it to Miramar MCAS. Now, these planes cost millions and millions of taxpayers dollars. If this plane would have been ditched in the ocean with one good engine when they engineerd her to limp home on at least one engine, you would be crying foul. Wouldn't you!
If they would have tried to make a carrier landing, where there are dozens of crew on the flight deck, thousands below decks, and think about all the merchandise on deck, now that would be expensive and endangerment to more lives. Would you want a F-18 to play Kamikaze on one of our carriers? I would cry foul if they did that one!

Truth be told, they have flown on one engine over this neighborhood before. Bad things happen. There have been military planes landing in neighborhoods before and all they can do is look at this instance and try to change protacol and the flight path for failing equipment. This is a very sad situation. Please show some reverence and hold the bashing.

Asking for a pilot to stay with the bird till the end is stupid. I am very very sure he didn't point it in the direction of the hood and bail. I am certain he did what was in his power to limit risk.

sleepychallenger

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008 - 08:26:51 PM »
 :wavingflag: I could not agree more John. I have seen planes here land on one engine, or with the canopy ripped back and off, all sorts of things, the pilot oviously had a reason for bailing when he did and i am sure that his intent was to keep the aircraft out of peoples living rooms. for all we know it could have been headed to the street and wind hit it, there is wind in san diego so i hear.

god bless that pilot for keeping the casulty rate as low as he could.

Drew

Offline go-fish

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008 - 08:45:16 PM »
True thing Drew, the Sant Ana's are hitting hard in SD so my mother in law says. My wife's family is from Coronado where the carriers are based. Miramar MCAS is the old "Top Gun" school and there is plenty of base housing around. I am just glad there was no ordnance.

Offline priderocks

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008 - 08:54:32 PM »
I have a hunch about something. I would be willing to bet fighter pilots are taught something like this in flight school- "You are an extremely valuable asset to your country. You are the elite of the elite. The government has a lot of money tied up in your training. It is much easier to replace an aircraft than it is to replace you."

Go-fish, I am not second-guessing the pilot. And I certainly don't give a rat's behind about some 20 million dollar aircraft. And I assume there is a procedure for determining when a plane could safely land on a carrier, and I am not about to critique that either. I will repeat my question, which was the purpose of the original post- does a jet become uncontrollable without engine power? If yes, then he should have bailed. If not, then he is faced with a more difficult decision.


Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008 - 09:10:55 PM »
Who is bashing? not me. I am not ignorant, I know sh!t happens, we all know it. A bird can get shot through the turbine and whammo the engine is toast. What I am saying is IF they knew the plane was in trouble they should not have put civilians in harms way. I do not know if the jet was in enough trouble to call for a ditch. I know too that the machines cost many millions of dollars. I definitely do not agree with the guy going down with his plane, no need for a worthless sacrifice like that. Nobody is not saying its not sad either. Sometimes it gets frustrating to be called out for comments taken out of context.
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Offline go-fish

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008 - 09:27:09 PM »
I have a hunch about something. I would be willing to bet fighter pilots are taught something like this in flight school- "You are an extremely valuable asset to your country. You are the elite of the elite. The government has a lot of money tied up in your training. It is much easier to replace an aircraft than it is to replace you."






Negative Ghost Rider! Do you think the rest of a pilots career is going to be a good one with a crash on his record? He definately would have been better off bringing her home. I will be willing to bet when he is an O-4 going for O-5 he will be wishing he went up in flames with the bird.
While you are obviously un-schooled about how the military operates please don't go on your "hunch". You know that saying about A$$-uming things.


They have more money tied up in the equipment than the pilots training probably by at least a million. Plus, it takes the availability of that aircraft out of the fight. Remember, we are fighting a war so your kids can go to the mall on Fri. night and not have to worry about a guy with a chest rig of an IED behind them at Gadzooks.

To answer your original question, when a jet plane such as a fighter plane with the airframe and wingspan they have loses proplulsion they will drop like a brick. A Jet Liner would have a better chance at gliding further with larger wings but only in a straight line. Ever notice how when your flying the friendly skies how they throttle up when they turn? They need those jets to stay in the air but to manuver as well. You take a smaller plane like a fighter and there is no manuverability with an engine failure.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2008 - 09:40:55 PM by go-fish »

Offline go-fish

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2008 - 09:37:57 PM »
Who is bashing? not me. I am not ignorant, I know sh!t happens, we all know it. A bird can get shot through the turbine and whammo the engine is toast. What I am saying is IF they knew the plane was in trouble they should not have put civilians in harms way. I do not know if the jet was in enough trouble to call for a ditch. I know too that the machines cost many millions of dollars. I definitely do not agree with the guy going down with his plane, no need for a worthless sacrifice like that. Nobody is not saying its not sad either. Sometimes it gets frustrating to be called out for comments taken out of context.

Sorry, BB71, none of my comments were directed at you. But, the only time they would ever ditch a plane would be when there is loss of all control and the plane cannot be saved. At the time the plane had one working engine, enough to call it as safe for bringing it in.
If what you say is true then they should have just ditched the plane in the ocean somewhere and not done such a risky thing as trying to bring it in for a landing over a residential neighborhood.

Without "calling" you out all I want to say is that they are designed to fly on one engine. They had one until, sadly, the lone engine failed.
They definately would have assesed the lone working engine in flight and flown for a period of time at various throttle positions over a safe area before making the call. It must have checked out initially.
Sorry for the confuson BB71. I hope I answered you in a non-calling out way, buddy.

Offline go-fish

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2008 - 09:41:40 PM »
Sorry to all for the negativity. I had a bug up my butt for a minute there. Sorry Pride and BB71

Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008 - 09:43:54 PM »
Exactly. What idiot decided to bring in a known problematic aircraft in over a residential neighborhood?


A small plane crashed outside Orlando this morning, killing the pilot—a plastic surgeon married to a Nascar executive—and four other people, including a toddler on the ground. The Cessna 310 plummeted into a residential neighborhood en route to a Orlando Sanford International Airport, split into pieces, and burst into flames, the Orlando Sentinel reported.

Sadly sometimes planes crash military or not and people on the ground get hurt.

http://www.newser.com/story/4115/plane-crash-kills-5-including-nascar-execs-husband.html
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Offline go-fish

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2008 - 09:45:51 PM »
Yeah, I remember the NASCAR execs last year. Those were some pretty high up guys on the NASCAR ladder.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008 - 09:47:23 PM by go-fish »

sleepychallenger

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Re: Any fighter pilots out there?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2008 - 09:48:50 PM »



Sadly sometimes planes crash military or not and people on the ground get hurt.



true, for me, it hits a bit harder when it is a military bird because i watch these go up and down every day listening to that sound of freedom and i too appoligize for my quick jumps.