Poll: Lucy - Should I Modify Her Engine?

[hemi71]

That stock air cleaner is very restrictive. Maybe not the element itself, but the size of the holes in the snorkels and the air flaps inside that further neck it down.

I agree, but it wont make that much difference on a stock build 440 block. Now if you had a motor with some nice flowing heads, headers, etc...then it would make sense to go to a less restrictive air cleaner. I've seen dyno pulls with stock air cleaners vs aftermarket...usually pick up 10-15 HP. You can flip the lid around and pick up 10HP on the stocker.

If you are trying to wring the most HP out of your combo, than by all means an air cleaner swap out is worth it. I gave up racin at the track years ago, so I'm not into getting the max HP out of my cars. I prefer them to at least look stock, again, thats just my opinion.

[Carlwalski]

Thanks Larry that is good to know and I see what you mean about stock heads and air cleaners etc. I'm a subtle guy with clean tastes and agree 100%. I was actually looking at my engine bay photos thinking how smart and factory it looked and I'm really having second thoughts about doing anything. It's by  no means correct (how I wanted it) but the changes and personal touches IMO enhance the look, gloss touches, small chrome bits, etc. Do you think it's worth getting an Eddy Performer RPM intake (Painting it Hemi Orange) and an Eddy 800 AVS carb and keeping the stock air cleaner assembly? I was even thinking of going from 3.91 to 4.10 to squeeze some extra oomph off the line. I have OD so I'd still cruise like a 3.23 car (currently 3.05 in OD).

[Carlwalski]

Just had a look at Randy's Ring & Pinions.
They make the following which with my OD equates to:

4.11 in OD (0.78:1) = 3.21 @ 65mph = 2,501rpm
4.30 in OD (0.78:1) = 3.35 @ 65mph = 2,613rpm
4.56 in OD (0.78:1) = 3.56 @ 65mph = 2,777rpm

4.30 sounds awesome, that'll help that sluggish feel off the mark & throttle response.
It'll also be livable on long trips, I can always do 62mph (NZ speed limit). 65 = cruise.

Thoughts?

[71chally416]

I guess you have to decide what's more important to you. If you're more worried about what looky-loos will see when you pick up the hood than how your car actually performs, than leave it stock. I build all my cars to please myself. I don't give jack about what anybody else might think. If they don't like it, they can go build their own.

You have an OD tranny? That's totally incorrect for 1970.   

[Carlwalski]

I guess you have to decide what's more important to you. If you're more worried about what looky-loos will see when you pick up the hood than how your car actually performs, than leave it stock. I build all my cars to please myself. I don't give jack about what anybody else might think. If they don't like it, they can go build their own.

You have an OD tranny? That's totally incorrect for 1970.   

Thanks mate and this "looky loos" LOL is 100% for me, I love the stock look and I always build my cars for myself, hence Lucy, Madeline, The Batram and the Jeep, all completely custom, bar Lucy. But, in saying that, I know myself I would be much prouder showing anyone under the hood with the stock set up vs. the plain air filter look, I'd be lying if I said otherwise. The air filter look looks like any other V8, Chev, Ford or MoPar, IMO. My Challenger is far from date code, label/stamps and factory chalk/paint markings correct. It's made to look as stock as possible but perform a lot better while hiding the "modern" items, OD is underneath, as best as we can and I feel we achieved that.

I will wait a while for some input and more than likely look at changing the rear gears to 4.11 or 4.30 (preferred) as well as look closely at the intake/carb and flipping the lid in the air cleaner.

[71chally416]

The way those snorkels neck down it's hard to believe it doesn't hurt the performance. That's 1960's technology. It was made that way to kill the Intake noise. The 6-paks had some real decent air cleaners. Lots of surface area on those. You have to remember a internal combustion engine is just an air pump. Anything you can do to help it pump more air will make it perform better. Why limit the area it has at the air Intake?

I don't think you'll notice a switch from 3.91's to 4.10's at all. Maybe 4.30's....   

[Carlwalski]

Hmmm, food for thought, thanks mate. I know going from 2.76 to 3.91 was a huge difference but this isn't as great of a jump but I do agree, 4.11s don't seem worth it, 4.30? Definitely. Just wondering if it's maybe too much gear. My 3.91s stick, hard. You really have to make the car light up from a stand still for a 0-60 time. Only thing I'm thinking is if it's too much I can always put the 3.91s back in. It will definitely help the low down "lag" out a lot IMO. I see what you mean about the air cleaners. What about the 68-69 style Charger cleaners? Not correct but it still appears factory to the untrained eye. Kind of hitting walls with what to do here - arrrggghhhh! 

[71chally416]

The trouble with those is they draw the hot air off the motor. Why not just get the good Xtreme lid to put on top of your air cleaner element and keep your base? That would look better than flipping your lid.

[hemi71]

Ever think about going to a shaker setup? With the hood swap out and painting it, you are looking at around $5K. The fresh air setup was worth about .1 in the quarter mile times. Gives you a nice free breathing air cleaner, and whats more of an impact is it draws in fresh air. Thats the big difference, not the air cleaner itself. The air cleaner swap by itself is not that much improvement, no matter how restricting those stock air cleaners look. Look at our SRT-10's. Changing from the stock air box to a K&N or some other aftermarket setup picks up like 10-15HP. Those stock SRT-10 air boxes cant be more restrictive than the stock 440 air cleaner, so thats what you'll pick up with that swap. Getting the motor fresh air is a big help, and it would remain stock looking. You could also change over to a T/A style setup. They really work well, and in 1970 if you ordered a shaker hood you may have gotten a T/A hood setup due to production problems with the shaker setups on the challengers. The T/A setup is cheaper than the shaker, i bet you could do the T/A setup for around $2K.

After all that though, i'll say i dont like the T/A setup on non trans am cars...just does not look right IMO. NOTHING looks better on an e-body than a shaker hood. But again, it's your car, do what you want.

The intake /carb swap can be done and the car will still look stock if you paint the intake to match the engine...I'd go that route.

As far as gear changes, if you have the OD setup, I'd go 4.30 in the rear. Changing to 4.30's from 3.91's is a nice stepup, and with the OD you can still stay driveable on the highway.

Just my input here, again, it's your car and it looks great no matter what you'll decide.

[hemi71]

I guess you have to decide what's more important to you. If you're more worried about what looky-loos will see when you pick up the hood than how your car actually performs, than leave it stock. I build all my cars to please myself. I don't give jack about what anybody else might think. If they don't like it, they can go build their own.

You have an OD tranny? That's totally incorrect for 1970.   

I have to agree i dont care what anybody else thinks about what my car looks like, but I do care what it looks like. Being i prefer the stock look, changing to a aftermarket air cleaner is not an option, i dont need to get an extra 10-15 HP at the expense of an aftermarket air cleaner that does not fit the look of the car under the hood. Again, thats my opinion and you asked for opinions so I'm throwing that out there.

I used to run my cars at the track, but that was quite a while ago. Just dont have the time for that anymore, so getting the most out of my cars just isnt a priority anymore. There will always be someone faster than you.

[Chryco Psycho]

the reality is even the shaker hood is restrictive although it does allow for cold air the 2 grille openings in the shaker are too small & restrict air flow as well

[71chally416]

I saw a drag strip test that knocked .05 off just the 60 ft time by just using the Xtreme lid on the 14x4 K&N open element that was already installed on a very mild 360 small block, and that was with 20 more lbs in the car because they added gas. The new lid actually leaned out the carb so they had to add squirter and picked up .02 more. That equates to about .09 improvement for just the lid in just the 60 ft time. You can probably guess what a smaller filter element in a stock filter housing costs you on a much bigger motor with 84 more cubes. If there's an easier way to get extra HP I don't know what it is. 

[nivvy]

4.30 with the O.D.   

[hemi71]

I saw a drag strip test that knocked .05 off just the 60 ft time by just using the Xtreme lid on the 14x4 K&N open element that was already installed on a very mild 360 small block, and that was with 20 more lbs in the car because they added gas. The new lid actually leaned out the carb so they had to add squirter and picked up .02 more. That equates to about .09 improvement for just the lid in just the 60 ft time. You can probably guess what a smaller filter element in a stock filter housing costs you on a much bigger motor with 84 more cubes. If there's an easier way to get extra HP I don't know what it is. 

yeah, you are right there...if you like the look of it or just dont care what it looks like and that data is real thats a no-brainer if you are looking for more performance. I just dont like the way they look, so as far as how good they work it's not worth the trade off to me. Now if i was going to run it at the track, I'd pop one on to run the car, then go back to stock when the track time was finished.

[71chally416]

I know plenty of guys that don't care about how their cars run. I've seen 15 second Hemi cars run at the track. For me it's about not getting embarrased at a traffic light by a Honda Civic with a turbo driven by a pimple faced teen. It's my duty to kick that booty.