Author Topic: Single to duel exhaust Question  (Read 5027 times)

Offline quapman

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2009 - 04:33:00 PM »
Chryco, I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but the factory style resonators (oval, under seat) are center in/out, mufflers (round, next to gas tank) are offset. Here's a good page for various complete setups. These guys have very nice stuff, but to me are a bit pricey.

I noticed that their 440 pipes are 2-1/2", but I don't know if that's just the front (headpipes), or the whole enchilada. I'm still debating if I'm going to get new headpipes myself.

http://www.accurateltd.com/CompleteSystems-E-Body.htm

Steve
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009 - 05:02:01 PM by quapman »
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Offline 71chally416

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2009 - 04:40:29 PM »
It makes me nervous that they show drawings and not actual pictures of the pipes. :sly: I myself would not want or pay for the "actual" exhaust that came on a 1970 car. Tube bending was not the greatest back then and the tubes were necked down where they were bent. The TTI system on my car is awesome. Every bend is mandrel bent.
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Offline 72hemi

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2009 - 04:43:21 PM »
Accurate ltd makes an excellent product. I used their kit on my 70 cuda. They took NOS parts and duplicated them, so of course they are not the best for performance, but if you are going for that concourse look you can't beat accurate ltd.

All of the aftermarket exhaust systems I have installed or had installed used offset inlet center outlet for the mufflers. It makes it easier for running the pipes.
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Offline TRIPLE-GREEN

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2009 - 07:31:26 PM »
Which offer the best sound? under the seat or near the tank?

Offline 72hemi

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2009 - 07:32:58 PM »
I would place them under the seat. For me they look silly next to the tank unless it is a stock system that has resonators and mufflers. And it is probably easier to install under the seat compared to next to the tank. As far as sound goes, it will be louder inside the car if the mufflers are next to the tank. As far as exterior noise goes, not sure.
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
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Offline 71chally416

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2009 - 10:41:56 PM »
If you're worried about somebody crawling under your car to check your exhaust pipe diameter with calipers instead of making it run as good as possible, I'm in the wrong thread. I'll leave now.  :lol:
Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009 - 12:59:37 AM »
Chryco, I don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but the factory style resonators (oval, under seat) are center in/out, mufflers (round, next to gas tank) are offset. Here's a good page for various complete setups. These guys have very nice stuff, but to me are a bit pricey.

I noticed that their 440 pipes are 2-1/2", but I don't know if that's just the front (headpipes), or the whole enchilada. I'm still debating if I'm going to get new headpipes myself.

http://www.accurateltd.com/CompleteSystems-E-Body.htm

Steve


 Not many original parts to look at , you may be right about the mufflers at the rear but the ones under the seat had the pipes tucked in along the driveshaft , I doubt they were center in , they pretty much had to be offset in like the T/A mufflers to move the resonators away from the driveshaft

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Offline 72hemi

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009 - 01:29:43 AM »
Here are pictures of the exhaust from Accurate LTD I installed on my 70 cuda (440 6 pack). It sounded good, but it was quiet and restrictive.With an offset inlet on the muffler you would be able to remove a lot of the bends in the exhaust system. On my 72 Challenger I have headers that go into an x-pipe and then into mufflers with offset inlets and there are no bends in the pipe other than to enter and exit the x-pipe.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2009 - 01:33:10 AM by 72hemi »
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Offline quapman

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009 - 06:02:57 PM »
If you're worried about somebody crawling under your car to check your exhaust pipe diameter with calipers instead of making it run as good as possible, I'm in the wrong thread. I'll leave now.  :lol:

I'm not worried about anybody going under my car except me. I absolutely agree that the factory setup is restrictive, but it's what I like and will probably go that route or close to it. The older I get, the less speed and (higher) performance are important.

That's a good point Chrycho....offset under-seat mufflers would absoulutely make for easier bends. I'm not exactly sure what the engineers at Ma were thinking when they designed the E-body system. It's wayyyyyyyyy different than any other previous setup. (A,B bodies)

72hemi...THANK YOU for the pictures. Way better than the Accurate website!

I'm guessing that on a 318 car, a 2" setup all the way through or 2-1/4 with the stock mufflers would be fine. On my 440, I will probably notice a small reduction in power.

Bear in mind that the original question was actually about a rear valance. We've gotten way off track (my fault), but I hope we can illustrate all the choices and options out there for our cars. This is why I think CC.C is such a good website. I bought all these parts new for my first Challenger at the local NAPA store. It's not quite that easy now!

Can anyone tell us if the stock 2" tips from the 2" rear muffler adds much restriction? It's a small opening, but only a couple inches long and at the end of the sytem. Again, I have no clue why the factory stuff was 2-1/4" until the end, then 2".

Thanks


Steve
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2009 - 10:47:35 PM »
I read a thick book on exhaust engineering & ther actually is some validity to the smaller tip size , as the exhaust cools it can actaully help power to reduce size towards the end of the exhaust gaining a small amount of power.
 I will see if I can find the pix of the exhaust I have installed or the T/A system which is definatly offset inlet & much cleaner as far as bends

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Offline 71chally416

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2009 - 12:29:21 AM »
My 318 cuda had a 2 1/2" system I made myself with some elbows and straight pipe welded together and some large reverse flow turbo mufflers and a crossover pipe. Had a nice factory 340 type sound and when I dropped the pipes (literally, because I could easily remove the whole system at the track and leave it in the Pits) it went exactly 1/10 quicker. Part of that gain was losing the weight. Pretty efficient system I'd say.
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Offline moper

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2009 - 12:40:30 PM »
It's funny how times change opinions... I bent custom pipe for a couple years back in the early 90s and as lucky enough to have some really sharp guys to talk to. Back then any dual was better than single, and the hot setup was 2.5" custom bent. I have seen as large as 4" mandrel bent thru the factory valance on a cuda. I couldn't do it, but my buddy has. As far as mandrel vs compression bending... There are two main types of compression benders. Those that use a notched die, and those that dont. The notched die is the one that leaves the little kinks every 1" or so along the ID of a bend. It also tends to stretch the metal thinner. Walker exh used to be that way, and had a tendency to rot quickly because of it. The other one does reduce the diameter very slightly because it is still compressing the pipe. You will find very little gain by going from the std compression bent pipe to a DOM tubing. That's Drawn Over Mandrel, or "mandrel bent". There is a small bit of power, but it's going to be less than 2% on a 400hp application. That's 8hp on a 400hp engine. There is a significant amount to be gained by going to larger diameters AS NEEDED. The factory used pipe size changes to control noise too. A smaller pipe will be louder and higher pitch than a larger. A decrease in diameter will dampen the low frequency waves similar to a deflector based welded case muffler, but cause back pressure. The Cuda pipe go from 2 1/4 to 2", and then 1 7/8 into the factory tips, along with using the resonators just to keep things very quiet. Increasing pipe size will help limit higher frequencies while being less restrictive. H pipes and X pipes will lower the noise level and fre up power, providing they are placed exactly where they need to be. The further forward or rearward they are of that perfect spot, the less effective they get. What's hysterical is I know very few people who know how to place them, and endeavor to get them in the right spot, as opposed to sticking them where they fit and look the best. Every car is different. Bigger pipe also gets heavy. Beyond 2.5", the thickness of the pipe goes up... my 4" pipe that exited before the tires (think AAR on steroids) with the flowmasters weighed close to 40lbs per side. And that's a total length of about 4.5 feet from header to rocker. If it were me, on anything less than 500hp, you will be more than fine with 2.5". Those that say theres a huge difference IMO need to prove it. The sound is much cooler, but back to back, the cars do not typically go faster as a result of that extra 1/2". The engines simply dont need the extra flow, aspecially as the exhaust cools as it goes thru the pipes. The factory tips can be bought in any inlet size now. Or, a savvy custom guy can replace the 1 7/8" section with any size you want. I prefer a good custom bent system to TTi. I've had too many that hit stuff on E, and B bodys even with careful installation. My own 4406bbl car at that time had no trouble with 2.5". I like the sound of the rounds in factory locations with no resonators and modified tips. I also like flowmasters...lol. Loud ones.... but that's me. 

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2009 - 03:22:26 PM »
I've never used any pipe bigger than 2.5" on a street exhaust and think it might be a chore to fit and as you say, it's HEAVY. I'll pass on the Flowmasters though. I get stopped enough already. The quieter the better.  :grinyes:
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2009 - 07:02:00 PM »
3" TTi on my Charger with offset inlet mufflers

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Offline 71chally416

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Re: Single to duel exhaust Question
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2009 - 10:28:59 PM »
How did your TTI's fit Chryco? Mine bolted right on with no problem. No complaints. :2thumbs: 
Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!