Gas prices question:

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Offline Oldschool

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Gas prices question:
« on: January 19, 2009 - 03:27:12 PM »
Okay, when the price of oil per barrel dropped, so did the gas prices at the pump.  Oil eased higher, so did the gas prices.  So far, I am following the correlation between the two.  Now, oil per barrel is at roughly $34.50.  That is the lowest in years right? BUT gas prices are easing back up.  My question is simply this:  What are gas prices actually tied to?  It certainly doesn't seem to be the price of oil, like "they " say it is...   Just wondering if anyone had an answer that could clear this up for me.....    :1zhelp:   
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Offline tactransman

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009 - 03:32:37 PM »
Ken,you have said what I have been thinking for the last 3 weeks. They price gas at what they think they can get away with! Yes, gas should be below $1.00 a gallon now.  :villagers:
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Offline pink panther

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009 - 03:35:10 PM »
it is tied to the politicians and oil companies
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Offline 72hemi

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009 - 03:36:34 PM »
80% of what goes into gasoline is crude oil, so it should be tied to it and we should have much lower gas prices right now.
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Offline JH27N0B

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009 - 04:58:24 PM »
Wrong....
Prices of various commodities are set on the futures markets by traders and speculators.  That is why things can get out of hand both on the upside (like last summer) and the downside (like during the late 90's when factors including an economic crisis in Asia led to a sell off where oil went down to 12 or 13 bucks a barrel).  Oil contract prices have tumbled greatly in recent months as we all know, as investors and speculators rushed to sell their contracts, and the same with gasoline contracts.  Oil has continued to sink recently but for some reason there has been some buying pressure on gasoline contracts, which is why gas prices have been rising.  Hopefully that is just a blip and the contracts will sell off soon and bring gas prices down at the pump.
There was a good report on 60 Minutes recently on how the speculators ran the prices up last year, and how some regulation and oversight of these markets had been eliminated somewhere around the year 2000 largely because of pressure from Enron, and that energy prices of all kinds, electricity, oil, natural gas etc. have become much more volatile then they were previously, as investors and speculators have run wild with no control.
It's all very complicated and hard to understand, most people can't or won't believe that the oil companies have little or no control of the prices of the products they sell, but it's true!
 

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009 - 05:13:26 PM »
What I know is...The price of oil is down. Our reserves are gushing, but the price of gas is going crazy again.

I'm too stupid to figure out the math.   :banghead:

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Offline burnt orange

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009 - 05:40:12 PM »
I just want to meet the individual who actually says "Alright, we are all going to raise the price by 2.9 cents at exactly 3:00 PM.  Go get 'em." :villagers:

There must actually be someone, somewhere who makes that decision, in co-operation with all the gas companies.  It can't be a coincidence that all the local gas stations just happen to raise their prices at the same time.  Isn't that sort of price-fixing illegal? 

On a side note, isn't it amazing that we (some of us) will pay as much or more, for bottled water as we do for gas?  When you think of the costs involved in getting a gallon of gas into your car vs. the costs involved in getting a gallon of water into your fridge, it seems criminal that water bottlers can charge so much.  Let's see...exploration, drilling, pumping, transporting, refining, gas station expenses vs. a filtering plant (sometimes!),bottling, transportation and sales....that's it!  Another amazing thing...I bought some dinner rolls the other day for six cents each.  Think of the chain of events that culminated in that roll.....how can it only cost six cents and still have everyone concerned make any money? (farmer, trucker, train, miller, store, baker)

It is all to confusing to me.
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Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009 - 05:47:23 PM »
There was a report recently about the companies that own the super tankers. They are holding millions upon millions of gallons of oil floating on the ocean waiting for prices to rise before unloading/selling the cargo. According to the report this is the largest amount of crude oil being held shipboard (in limbo) ever in history. Kinda makes you wonder about the big picture!! :clueless:


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Offline 72hemi

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009 - 05:50:03 PM »
Sort of like the oil embargo in the 70's. Ships just circled around in the ocean full of crude.
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Offline JH27N0B

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009 - 07:03:18 PM »
Here is a link to that 60 Minutes story on speculator's contributions to the spike in oil prices last year.
Very educational, a must watch.........
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4713382n


Offline priderocks

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009 - 07:04:53 PM »
Burntorange, you're right- it's way confusing. Here's what I understand about it.

There are many factors influencing crude prices, and there are many things influencing gasoline prices, and the factors aren't necessarily the same. Keep in mind the price of crude accounts for only about 60 percent of gasoline prices. Not all fluctuations in crude prices impact gasoline prices with the same speed or to the same degree.

So, you can imagine some of the things that affect crude prices-what production levels OPEC decides to set, what the opinions of futures traders are, i.e. whether or not they are bullish on the outlook for crude prices in the future, tensions in the middle east or strife in oil-producing countries like Nigeria, weather (like hurricanes in the gulf), and the biggy, what the world demand for oil products is at any given time. So, it's logical that when this stuff hits the headlines, we watch crude prices rise and soon prices for gasoline follow.

Where this gets more complicated is what affects the price of gasoline when the crude gets here for refining into gasoline. These are all the factors that don't make the headlines like the above stuff. Domestically, gasoline prices are determined by how much the refiners decide to produce, refinery maintenance (down time), seasonal blend changes in the formulation of gasoline, and what the gas station owners decide to charge.

What many people don't realize is that the major oil companies own less than 5 percent of gas stations. It's not a high-profit business for most. Most stations are owned by small retailers. These guys are at liberty (within certain legal limits) to set prices at whatever they want. Ever notice how a Mobil station near a freeway often has higher gas prices than one a few miles away? Travelers aren't going to traipse all over the countryside to save three cents per gallon.

Crude price is currently falling, but gasoline prices are going up because the refiners are sharply cutting production of gasoline because demand for it has fallen. Less production=less supply=higher prices. They are cutting prices because gasoline is not a high-profit item for refiners compared to the other stuff they can make from crude.

Now it gets even murkier. When crude prices are on the rise, the difference between what a refinery pays for crude oil and the money they make from the refined products tends to decrease- this is called the refining margin. I'm not sure I understand this very well (hey, I'm a carpenter), because it seems the big oil companies always turn record profits no matter what happens to crude prices. I guess the important point is that the refiners don't always do the same.

Gas station owners are under no marching orders from the big boys when it comes to setting gasoline prices. They set prices based on what the refiners charge them, what the competition is doing, and like many of us in business do, what prices they can get away with. I have a friend who owns a Sinclair station in Montana. He says one of the difficulties is charging enough for gasoline to be able to afford the next truckload. When you're dropping 15 or 20 grand on a load of petrol, you need to watch your p's and q's.

As I recall, I think my friend said he cannot charge less than 5 cents per gallon more than he pays for gasoline. This is a law designed to prevent Costco or Wal-Mart from undergutting gas prices to take control of the market.

Hope this helps.



Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2009 - 10:07:52 PM »
OS we had this conversation just this afternoon. And to make it better it was with someone from the middle east! He figured at current prices (per barrel)gas should be about $1.09 / $1.19 for reg. I can't argue with that!
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Offline Carlwalski

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2009 - 10:22:05 PM »


We're lucky we still have gas. Beats driving around like Mad Max hunting down every last drop. :burnout:
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Offline Aussie Challenger

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009 - 12:04:37 AM »
  Here in Australia the major oil companies own or control most of the fuel outlets. They drop the fuel into most outlets tanks at no cost but monitor what they sell and charge on that amount. The price is set by the oil companies and they can change that price anytime and do by simply making a phone call. Remember that they watch what gets sold and if the operator doesn't charge what he is told they don't get anymore fuel for a while.   :walkaway:
  We have govt regulation but the oil companies ignore this and do what they like. Also the govt make more money from fuel through taxes & excise (another tax) than the oil companies so they don't want to rock the boat.   :villagers:
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Offline quapman

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Re: Gas prices question:
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009 - 06:51:02 PM »
When are they going to drop that $X.XX.9 (point nine) crap?
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