Author Topic: 74 Challenger driver  (Read 23350 times)

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #45 on: June 14, 2009 - 09:17:52 PM »
More work on the cylinder heads.  I'm enlarging the intake port minimum cross section area because this will increase the peak torque rpm, and will correct a too high velocity at the pushrod pinch at peak horsepower rpm. 
On a side note, the combustion chamber volume was 58cc per Edel spec; then after unshrouding the valves and polishing the chambers they are at 61cc.  BUT I HAD TO MILL THE HEADS 0.010 to reduce the cc's back to 61.

Now for increasing the cross section area at the intake port pushrod pinch. 
For clearance to the pushrods for LA block with Edel magnum heads, ended up having to drill the OEM holes out to just over 5/8 diameter, then epoxied 5/8 diam brass tubes in the pushrod holes;  then pushed the tubes flat to give a little more cross section to the port.
As cast cross section area at pushrod pinch was 0.88 wide X 2.1 tall = 1.68 sq. inches.
With brass tubes flattened, area is (1.0 X 0.6) round tubing + (1.08 X 1.5) flattened tubing = 2.22 sq. inches total.  So the cross section area increased 32%.
From the speedtalk forum:
Proper port velocities mean superior power range and torque spread characteristics.  Too much port velocity will limit peak power... independent of cfm flow numbers for the port.
Intake port velocity limit condition is 0.55-0.60 times speed of sound (Mach 1 is speed of sound).  For 0.55 mach, this is equal about 660 feet per second including temperature compensation and various personal opinions.
Peak volumetric efficiency (VE) occurs in the range of 0.3-0.5 mach.  VE drops rapidly at speeds of 0.6-0.8 mach.  0.3 mach = 335 ft/sec.

Equation for intake port limiting port velocity = (0.00353 * rpm * S * B*B) / CA
where rpm is peak engine rpm, S is stroke, B is bore, CA is minimum cross section area.
For as-casts Edel magnum head:
limiting velocity = (0.00353 * 6000 * 3.58 * 4.03 * 4.03) / 1.68   = 733 ft/sec
So the port velocity at 6000 rpm is definitely into velocity limit condition.
Try again at 5000 rpm gives answer = 611 ft/sec which is a good velocity, so port will flow well at 5000 rpm, but not at 6000 rpm.

Now modify the intake port minimun cross section area which is at the pushrod pinch, so limiting port velocity at 6000 rpm = 0.00353*6000*3.58*4.03*4.03)/2.22 equals 555 ft/sec.   So with modified port, the velocity is good at 6000 rpm, just below the 0.55 mach limit condition of 660 fps.  AT 3000 rpm the port velocity would be 273 fps, and by 3500 rpm velocity is 324 fps...just getting into peak volumetric efficiency.  So at highway cruising speed of 70 mph with 3.23 axle gears and 24 inch tall tires, engine speed is 3200 rpm, just getting into peak VE range.

Now check for what rpm peak torque (PT) occurs at.  PT = CA * 88,200/vol of 1 cyl.
Peak horsepower will be about 1400 rpm above peak torque.
For as-cast Edel intake port, PT = 1.68 * 88,200 / 45.6 = 3250 rpm, and peak hp = 4650 rpm.  Both kinda low considering for street use would like to see peak hp at about 6000 rpm.

Now check modified port.  PT = 2.22 * 88,200 / 45.6 = 4294 rpm, about 4300 rpm, so then peak hp = 5700 rpm which is making full use of a street engine rpm range.

When I switched to 1.6 rocker ratio, I thought the 0.05 duration of the voodoo cam was maybe a little too much for power brakes. The voodoo specs are 271/279 seat duration, with 226/234 @ 0.05 for 1.5 rocker ratio, then add 3 degrees for 1.6 rocker ratio would be 229/237 @ .05 lift, which from forum searching is a little much for power brakes and good street manners. LSA was 110 degrees.
I'll be using 1 3/4 diameter headers and free flow exhaust, so I decided to go with a single pattern hydraulic flat tappet cam from Engle, part # K56H.  I bought the cam several months ago not realizing the Engle company would be sold last month, so was lucky.
Engle specs are:  272/272 seat duration, 110 lobe seperation angle,  223/223 dur. at 0.05 lift and .504 valve lift for 1.5 rocker; then add 3 degrees for 1.6 rocker gives 226/226 at 0.05 lift and .537 valve lift.  Now subtracting 2% for the 59 degree lifter angle gives valve lift of 0.526 inch.  Not too radical, should not wear out valve guides real fast, and the 226 duration @ 0.05 shoud work well for power brakes.
On the dodge charger forum, many folks liked the Engle K56H cam in their big block 383.  Some said the 383 with its short stroke acts like a small block, so the K56 should work well in a small block; with less cubes maybe a little rougher idle.
Photos show drilling out the pushrod holes, then intake ports with brass tubes flattened and 60 grit finish applied to entire intake port to promote liquid fuel drops atomized back into airstream.  Last pic shows intake/exhaust bowls.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2009 - 08:22:49 PM by femtnmax »
Phil




Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2009 - 10:07:41 PM »
Body is getting high build primer and block sanding.   The AMD rear quarter (drivers side) needed some filler fwd of the rear wheel.   The Goodmark rear quarter (pass side) needed the lower edge of the gas filler hole corrected, otherwise did not need any special work.
The AMD roof skin and trunk lid did not need any special work.  The Goodmark R/T hood did not need any special work.
Phil

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2009 - 12:11:37 AM »
The body shop has the car prepped for painting.  They were not impressed with the POR-15 paint I had applied.  The POR has a really hard surface that needs to be sanded before applying the next paint layer.  Even the POR etch primer says to roughen the surface of the POR before applying  the primer. 
So the sanding took much longer than expected.  The body shop showed me the other cars they are doing resto work on... 60's corvette and mustang.  Both were blasted with sand or soda to bare metal then had PPG compatible products applied.  Sanding the PPG primers was quick and much easier than trying to scratch the hard surface of the POR.   
I was trying to keep the existing OEM paint if it was adhearing well, etc.  They said I could have cleaned and roughened the OEM paint then applied PPG primer over that.  I'm sure everyone has a different opinion, but I'll try a standard auto paint process next time and skip the POR.
Phil

Offline e-tek

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2009 - 11:12:20 AM »
You applied POR to the body??? Definitley NOT a recommended use or procedure. POR is for frames, undersides of panels and only for rusty surfaces. IT is not meant for smooth surfaces (won't adhere if it can't "bite"). It's an incredible product - when used as intended. Just like you wouldn't use an epoxy directly over rust. I'm surprised the BS owner didn't charge you double to strip it off!

Car looks great now tho! I just finished mine (Chili Challengr thread). You'll find you'll have to drill holes in the underside lip of hood for the moulding. Why GoodMark puts clip holes in front I don't know. As well, I see you have 2 holes in quarter ends for mouldings. I thimk you need three. Ask BS to check those things so they can drill them out now, then primer and paint the area. Rather than having to touch them up or have bare metal under the mouldings for rust to start again!

Offline e-tek

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2009 - 11:33:56 AM »
Just looking back at more of your thread. Great stuff. I'm guessing you're a MECHANIC! I'm not, I'm a BodyMan... Too bad few of us are both! I rebuilt my engine myself, but just sent it to a specialist to tune the TQ and engine and get it running fine.
I did the same Edlebrock/TQ set up - with spacer. On your E-manni - I can't recall what they look like stock - did they have 4 holes and you blended them? Very cool. Someone told me here that the TQ, spacer, Eddy and K&M filter wouldn't fit - but it does no problem.
As per the markers - only you'd notice the diff in the end. Sounds like a lot or work/expense to go through to change them to flsuh fit. Plus a lot of filler.
My car is stock White. Only problem with the factory white is it's a little grey/yellow when you first paint it. If you haven't already, you might want to check chips from other models. I looked at a chip from another Dodge product - it was much whiter. Part of me still thinks I should have gone with that. There are more "white" whites.







Here's mine:


Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2009 - 08:45:42 PM »
You applied POR to the body???
No No No.  Maybe I wasn't clear.  I used POR on the engine compartment, trunk, door jams and inside floor.   Shop is just prepping these surfaces so their paint will stick properly.
Phil

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2009 - 08:48:41 PM »
You'll find you'll have to drill holes in the underside lip of hood for the moulding. Why GoodMark puts clip holes in front I don't know. As well, I see you have 2 holes in quarter ends for mouldings. I think you need three.
The holes on hood leading edge are for 1970 only trim if I'm correct.  The 2 holes in the quarter trim has already been changed to 3, thanks for the detailed looksee.
Phil

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2009 - 08:59:25 PM »
On your E-manni - I can't recall what they look like stock - did they have 4 holes and you blended them? Very cool. Someone told me here that the TQ, spacer, Eddy and K&M filter wouldn't fit - but it does no problem.
As per the markers - only you'd notice the diff in the end. Sounds like a lot or work/expense to go through to change them to flsuh fit. Plus a lot of filler.
I looked at a chip from another Dodge product - it was much whiter. Part of me still thinks I should have gone with that. There are more "white" whites.
Glad to hear the carb to air cleaner clears the hood ok.  I was planning to measure as I built so you saved me some effort.
I agree with you on the side marker lights, too much hassle for the result.   I'm still deciding on a color, I like the 70 W1 white, but there are so many white cars on the road....The body shop has painted 6 different colors on scrap fenders.  I have them all lined up along the back fence, looking at them in shadows and sun glare.  decisions decisions.
Phil

Offline e-tek

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2009 - 09:11:21 PM »
sorry about the mis-takes!
again - great project!

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2009 - 10:29:53 PM »
Finally settled on a paint color.
Considered sublime, green go, plum crazy, go mango orange, hemi orange, corvette ontario orange, brite blue with and without metallic, burnt orange, copper metallic, dark tan, and alpine white.
Settled on EW1 white.  Lets the car's lines speak for themselves, goes well with the black interior, is a safe color for good visibility on the road, and both my mom and my wife say it's a color that will always be in style.  Will have pics when the paint is on.
Phil

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2009 - 10:36:40 PM »
I always have 10 tasks to do, and not enough time.
On the Dodge, the paint work is nearly done.  Looks good.  The body shop stayed within their budget estimate, which was good considering all the detail work they put extra hours into. I need to finish the engine, but I was hoping to finish siding the house before winter, so must make more headway on that job too.
I did cut down two large trees in the back yard without killing myself or wrecking the house.  Had to drop some large branches on the house, but no damage done. The trees were each over 40 foot; easily taller than phone poles.  The neighbor helped dig out the stumps with his track hoe.  Only punctured the underground gas line once  :biggrin:
The tree pic is after taking the top third off the tree.  A friend paid $1400 to have one tree dropped, and for that price they left the tree laying in his yard.   So I saved myself almost $3000.  That will go along way towards parts for the Dodge.
This summer did some backpack trips, saw mountain goats at 11,400 foot in the Beartooth Mountains.  They have really died back the last few years.  Not sure if the winter feeding ranges are "bad" or what.  I've also been doing more target shooting this summer.  Both rifle and pistol.  Plan on getting my CCH permit, and just finished the Appleseed shoot where we worked on accurate "head" shots out to 400 yards.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009 - 10:48:27 PM by femtnmax »
Phil

Offline DMZ73

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2009 - 06:12:29 PM »
 :2thumbs:
great work Phil. I have been enjoying your posts fir some time.
I think you get into some great detail, and spare no expense telling us about the finer points of the resto.
Very impressive work!
I am sure your results are as stunning as they look.
Keep up the good work.

Dan
One E body saved, 7 years and counting.

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2009 - 07:55:22 PM »
Brought the car home from the paint shop.  Was pleased overall with the paint, but there are some fisheyes and dust specks.  So now the fun begins.  Should be a good winter project.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2009 - 08:08:23 PM by femtnmax »
Phil

Offline femtnmax

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2009 - 10:54:14 PM »
The more we looked over the car, the more mistakes were finding.  Fisheyes all over some areas, visible dirt under the paint and on top of the paint, paint chipped off hood and trunk corners from sloppy assembly, a large area of wrinkled paint above the back window.   So getting opinions of what to do...leave it all since its a driver, or fix the worst of it.  I don't believe in taking it back to the body shop, they have already shown the quality of work they do.   I really expected better considering they painted a cuda that sold for top dollar at the big Arizona car show.
Is there a way to remove the black, visible dirt thats imbedded in the top of the clear coat on the passenger side kick panel? 
Phil

Offline 70burntorangeT/A

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Re: 74 Challenger driver
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2009 - 11:05:06 PM »
I would take it back and say something to them...you cant just let them screw you over. If they are decent people they will make it right, my dad painted and did bodywork on cars for 20+ years and of anyone ever had a problem with his work he did whatever he could to make it right.
66 f-100 black  240 straight 6  3 on the tree.....currently blown up :(
70 challenger burnt orange 440 727 3:23-weekend cruizer