Author Topic: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????  (Read 8551 times)

Offline kingtroll

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Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« on: February 05, 2009 - 10:48:47 PM »
The other day I started to hear a high pitched sound from the front left side of my car and I thought it was my rotors.  Turns out that my alignment got so out of wack that my tires were rubbing and basically wearing away. I brought my car to someone who was able to align the car about a year and a half ago and now they say that can't align it now. They say everything looks fine but it seems that the lower control arms need to have more adjustability than they currently have now. The camber and caster adjustments are majorly out (4.0 degrees) instead of around .25 degrees as I am told. The tires are sitting too in now. These adjustable upper control arms from alterkation seem to address the very problem I am having. Any suggestions or opinions on this would be greatly appreciated. I don't really understand this stuff very well but I can pass on any info to my mechanic . These upper control arms according to the description allow camber and caster adjustments in the range that I was told I need.


Here is the link:http://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16166&cat=265&page=1 :clueless:
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Offline Moparal

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2009 - 10:54:44 PM »
Just curious?  Do you have the struts installed to loose?  The wrong ride height can throw things out of wack.  Or even the wrong front end parts. Because when all is fresh and new, and installed right, it should be well within specs.

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009 - 10:54:46 PM »
Something has to be broke, bent or completely worn out.... Rebuild the front end if it has never been done, The work is easy...heck I done it w/minimal tools ....ck out this list  http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=36356.0
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline kingtroll

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2009 - 11:02:42 PM »
That the strange thing everything looks fine. The car has a new steering box, inner tie rods, wheel bearings, and front shocks from 2 years ago. Maybe the ride height is wrong how can that be checked? I'll check out the links posted.
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Offline kingtroll

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2009 - 11:09:55 PM »
I may have to change everything like you posted in the kit Bullitt to make sure. Somethings outta wack. And I'll double check the struts Moparal and see if they are loose.
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Offline HP2

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2009 - 11:23:50 PM »
The other day I started to hear a high pitched sound from the front left side of my car and I thought it was my rotors.  Turns out that my alignment got so out of wack that my tires were rubbing and basically wearing away.


If they were rubbing to this degree, you should be able to see it either as tire damage or rubber build up on the contact point. On what part of the car where they rubbing or are you referring to the way they contacted the ground?

I brought my car to someone who was able to align the car about a year and a half ago and now they say that can't align it now.


If this suddenly happened after a year and a half, something must have broke. Alignments don't suddenly go bad without impacts. They gradually deteriorate, but never to a point of creating tire contact anywhere.

They say everything looks fine but it seems that the lower control arms need to have more adjustability than they currently have now. The camber and caster adjustments are majorly out (4.0 degrees) instead of around .25 degrees as I am told.


Lower control arms don't adjust for caster or camber, only the upper arms do. Also, the specs your quoting seem somewhat suspect, but if your unfamialir with the terms, you maybe mixing things up. 4 degrees caster would be a good thing, 4 degrees camber a bad thing. .25 degree caster would be bad, .25 degree camber would be good.

The tires are sitting too in now.


By "too in" do you mean at the tops, bottom, front, or back of the tire. This will help us figure out what may be wrong.

These adjustable upper control arms from alterkation seem to address the very problem I am having. Any suggestions or opinions on this would be greatly appreciated. I don't really understand this stuff very well but I can pass on any info to my mechanic . These upper control arms according to the description allow camber and caster adjustments in the range that I was told I need.


Here is the link:http://www.reillymotorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16166&cat=265&page=1 :clueless:


Nice part, but may not be needed to fix your particular problem. Lets dig in to this further first.

That the strange thing everything looks fine. The car has a new steering box, inner tie rods, wheel bearings, and front shocks from 2 years ago. Maybe the ride height is wrong how can that be checked? I'll check out the links posted.


Are those all the parts that were replaced at that time? If so, potential failure points are- outer tie rods, idler arm, pitman arm, strut bushings, upper and/or lower arm bushings. I'd bet the arm bushings are toast if they were not replaced and you're dealing with excessive camber problems. Ride height can cause problems, but this would have been evident for the past two years, not a sudden failure like this.

BTW, if you could post pics of various parts along the way, it is a HUGE help in diagnosis. If not, we'll try to talk you through it.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009 - 02:50:24 AM »
make Sure you have the proper lower control arm bushin gin place , I worked on a car last year where they had installed a rear leaf spring bushing [poly] in the lower control arm & the tires would not stay aligned & were way out of alignment

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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2009 - 06:44:56 AM »
Maybe the ride height is wrong how can that be checked? I'll check out the links posted.

In the pic on left below, step 3 take two measurements. The difference is the ride height, spec. is 1 1/8" for carline J. 
  I doubt ride height is causing this although if you lower too much getting camber to spec. could be an issue.   

   I've been mentally bending & wearing out parts & the only thing I can see causing a tire to rub on the suspension would be the upper ball joint.  Too much caster doesn't seem like anything would rub.


 
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline kingtroll

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009 - 01:31:20 PM »
I don't know what they did but the car doesn't rub at the moment. I drove it home about twenty miles on the high way and didn't hear that whining squealing tire sound. I took a couple of quick pics without lifting the car and maybe somebody can notice something obviously wrong. I may have to rebuild the whole front end I don't know when or if that has been done to this car.
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Offline quagmire

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009 - 01:34:53 PM »
I'm sure you know already, but it looks like you are missing the dust boot on your right outer tie rod.  I also think something is bent or completely worn out.  4 degrees is a HUGE amount in terms of alignment.  To be that far out something has to be really wrong. 

Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009 - 01:57:24 PM »
Based solely on the visual evidence, I'm betting it's either never had the front suspension rebuilt or it's been a long time since the last rebuild.  That missing dust boot is a concern and I bet there's a fair amount of slop in those outer tie rod ends.

If it were my car, I'd rebuild it.  I've done it twice in my driveway - it's not difficult or expensive.  You can do most of the work with hand tools.  The only special equipment you need is a press to get the bushings in and out of the control arms.  The ball joints can be difficult to get out too - if I ever do it again, I'll spend the money for the special socket.  If you call Just Suspension, they'll set you up.

Can you take one of the wheels off and post some pics of the spindle/control arm assembly and the strut rods?
Greg
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Offline kingtroll

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009 - 02:46:34 PM »
I think I am going to get the parts like suggested and have the front rebuilt since I don't intend to sell the car. I am just going to have to limit it's use until I am ready. Unfortunately I have been out of work since the beginning of October and have to limit my expenses. I have to get a jack so I can lift the car which I don't have right now. I am going to get one from harbor freight when I get a chance. Luckily I don't have to use the car on a day to day basis because it's my hobby car. When it rains it pours you guys know how it is. My wife just told me that we are going to have to pay taxes  because of unemployment doesn't take out the way I have it and my 401 K loan wasn't finished being payed back when I transferred to an IRA after my company closed. Just one day at a time.......Sorry for getting off  subject but i couldn't help it you guys have been great. (as always)   
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Offline Moparal

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2009 - 03:07:52 PM »
Upper ball joints average around 13 bucks each give or take. Lower ball joints usually under 50 bucks each, maybe 60. Upper bushings around 4 bucks each times 4 required. Lowers are around 10-12 bucks. Idler arms around 22-35 bucks. under 40 for the pitman arm. Strut bushings around 23 bucks. I believe tie rods are around 12 each. Pick up a few items at a time as you get a couple extra bucks. Make sure you check,clean and or replace wheel bearings, races and seals if needed.   You'll be up and going in no time :2thumbs:

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2009 - 04:06:10 PM »
kt, me thinks the squealing you were hearing was just the tires being pushed the wrong way due to the alignment.... Didn't know you were out of work, I'd bet if you have a decent set of wrenches, a bench vice & a local parts sore with a loan a tool program we could solve the problems for less than a hundred & a few evenings work. Like I said I did it with practically no special tools although I did not have to remove the upper ball joints as they were still good.
  Important to go ahead and fix this as you will ruin your tires & things like that missing dust boot may be solved now with a $2. boot rather than a $15. tie rod.
 If your ball joints are good or not your probably looking at upper & lower control arm bushings which are the least expensive yet most difficult to access parts... Being out of work sounds like you would have the time to give it a go+++ we're here for support.

Give me a shout if you need guidance
Wade
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Offline 422STROKER

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Re: Can't get car to align....may have found answer????
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2009 - 04:42:53 PM »
Post up what you are looking for, I have some bushings and boots I could send you cheap.

Tom

I think I have an upper ball joint socket somewhere I could send down and when you are done you could send it back.


The lowers would be best brought somewhere and pressed in/out along with the uppers to be safe.
Tom
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