Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?

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    Author Topic: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?  (Read 2818 times)

    Offline Moparpena

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    Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « on: February 14, 2009 - 11:44:55 AM »
    I´m going to make subframe connectors my self, weld in model like us-car tool have.
    I have computer operating cutting tool and I need a program/map for those subframe connectors.

    Does anyone have one ready? Any format is ok.
    Its 100% sure, someone has, I just hope to find it.
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    Offline 73Chally

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #1 on: February 14, 2009 - 04:09:59 PM »
    Unfortunately what you are looking for is probably licensed because each manufacturer comes up with their own template.  If you have access to the machine, could you make a cardboard template and trace it into a CAD file?  that would probably be your best bet, anyways, because I think even us car connectors, and even the XV weld in connectors require tweaking.  No 2 cars are exactly alike, and you're looking at precision with the rolls in the floor pans.
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    Offline Moparpena

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #2 on: February 14, 2009 - 05:38:50 PM »
    Not a bad idea, I have to talk about it with senior machinist. If thats possible, then we have very good fitting connectors, unique for every car.

    I just thought if anyone here has allready done that?
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    http://penasgarage.blogspot.com/

    Offline 67vertman

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #3 on: February 14, 2009 - 07:10:12 PM »
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    Ron - Born and raised in Southern California

    I got the 1970 Cuda, but still need the hot blonde to ride shotgun!

    First car -1969 Road Runner 383 4sp

    Current ride - 1970 Barracuda 440-6 4 sp Dana 60  (4:10)

    Offline femtnmax

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #4 on: February 14, 2009 - 10:07:00 PM »
    Would be nice to improve on the rear portion of the weld-to-floor-bottom connectors, as the vertical height is lacking.   The ones currently being made are about 1 3/4 inch tall near the back;  whereas the OEM frame is almost 4 inches tall just aft of where the subframe connector ends.  Plus the neutral axis of the OEM frame is half way up the height of the frame (at 2 inches), and the neutral axis of 1 3/4 is 7/8 inch, and is located BELOW the lowest point of the OEM frame.  THUS a bending moment is introduced right at the weakest point of the add-on subframe connector.
    As another forum member said, the current below the floor add-on connectors are more for looks than function.   IF you could make a design that gets past this structural flaw you could have something truly functional.   JMO from a structural design aspect.
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    Phil

    Offline boydsdodge

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #5 on: February 14, 2009 - 10:48:41 PM »
     :ylsuper: :iagree:
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    Jackson from Toronto.

    Offline Moparpena

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009 - 07:29:18 AM »
     :iagree:

    I have thought that too. Best way to do connectors is cut the floor and put in straight beams, I think. But do I want to cut my floor is another thing.

    This takes more :clueless:
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    Dodge Challenger r/t 1970, fc7 car. Restoration link below:
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    Offline somedaysoon

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009 - 08:18:15 AM »
    Quote from: femtnmax on February 14, 2009 - 10:07:00 PM
    Would be nice to improve on the rear portion of the weld-to-floor-bottom connectors, as the vertical height is lacking.   The ones currently being made are about 1 3/4 inch tall near the back;  whereas the OEM frame is almost 4 inches tall just aft of where the subframe connector ends.  Plus the neutral axis of the OEM frame is half way up the height of the frame (at 2 inches), and the neutral axis of 1 3/4 is 7/8 inch, and is located BELOW the lowest point of the OEM frame.  THUS a bending moment is introduced right at the weakest point of the add-on subframe connector.
    As another forum member said, the current below the floor add-on connectors are more for looks than function.   IF you could make a design that gets past this structural flaw you could have something truly functional.   JMO from a structural design aspect.

    Here's a quote from XV's site

    dramatically improve the vehicle’s torsional rigidity, resulting in better overall performance as well as reduced interior vibrations and noise. These components were developed by using full torsion tests of the vehicle in stock trim and with different types of components in place.

    Well I'd say it's better than nothing and much better than the bolt-ins. I'd still rather do this than have a rail sticking up through the floor. I made my own, contoured and welded them to the floor, although mine are made from much heavier steel than there's. If I go to any one corner or any part of the car and jack it up there is no sag or change at all in my door to quarter, or door to fender gap. Actually if I jack in the middle of the car it even picks up the whole side and still no sag. Say what you want but they work. No theory, study or thought, just actual proof.  Pete
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    Offline 73Chally

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009 - 08:58:15 AM »
    I agree (smiley not working?) I did the bolt-in style, with extra welding, and it did make a noticeable difference.  Sure there are better ways to do it, but for the result I was looking for, they worked great.  Unless you're looking to build a race car or put in 1000 HP, either of the bolt in or weld in connectors on the market today should be fine.
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    Offline MoparCar

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009 - 09:54:24 AM »
    I'll be cutting the floor on my project for full sized connectors, but it don't have to. Like others have said there are ones that will get you almost the same results.

    Here's some that Hotchis just came out with. Pretty pricey, but looks to be easy to copy and they don't cut the floor. Mopar also makes similiar.

    Wes

    http://www.hotchkis.net/subframe_connectors_challenger.html


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    Offline femtnmax

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009 - 09:46:01 PM »
    Quote from: somedaysoon on February 15, 2009 - 08:18:15 AM
    Here's a quote from XV's site

    dramatically improve the vehicle’s torsional rigidity, resulting in better overall performance as well as reduced interior vibrations and noise. These components were developed by using full torsion tests of the vehicle in stock trim and with different types of components in place.

    Well I'd say it's better than nothing and much better than the bolt-ins. I'd still rather do this than have a rail sticking up through the floor. I made my own, contoured and welded them to the floor, although mine are made from much heavier steel than there's. If I go to any one corner or any part of the car and jack it up there is no sag or change at all in my door to quarter, or door to fender gap. Actually if I jack in the middle of the car it even picks up the whole side and still no sag. Say what you want but they work. No theory, study or thought, just actual proof.  Pete
    Under the floor style frame connectors might be adequate, and as many have said they are much better than nothing. Adequate is fine for some folks, and not good enough for others.   I am just pointing out that basic structural analysis shows they have a weakness to their design;  the same analysis is used for building bridges, buildings, and airplanes.   It's no theory.  It's fact.  Math doesn't lie, and doesn't have emotions get in the way.
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    Phil

    Offline somedaysoon

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009 - 10:09:06 PM »
    uh oh somebodies feewings got hurt!!
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    Offline 71chally416

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009 - 01:12:09 AM »
    Without a roll bar frame connectors only do so much. I've only installed the thru the floor type because they give a solid place to mount the main roll bar tube with a roll cage while the other types don't. You can't weld a roll bar to the floor pan. If you have no intention of ever using a cage then do whatever floats your boat. I don't know how much it really infringes on the rear seat space to have the tubes running through the floor, unless you're sitting on the little floorpans behind the front seats. That's like saying you don't want a 4-speed because the shifter tunnel gets in the way of your right leg.  :lol:
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    Offline somedaysoon

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    Re: Engine drawings, program for subframe connectors?
    « Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009 - 08:51:29 AM »
    Quote from: 71chally416 on February 17, 2009 - 01:12:09 AM
    Without a roll bar frame connectors only do so much. I've only installed the thru the floor type because they give a solid place to mount the main roll bar tube with a roll cage while the other types don't. You can't weld a roll bar to the floor pan. If you have no intention of ever using a cage then do whatever floats your boat. I don't know how much it really infringes on the rear seat space to have the tubes running through the floor, unless you're sitting on the little floorpans behind the front seats. That's like saying you don't want a 4-speed because the shifter tunnel gets in the way of your right leg.  :lol:

      This I agree with, and that is probably next winters project.  I've got way to many ponies to trust what I've got to keep it from wrinkling. Pete
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