XV level one suspension

[ajantics]

[TripleT]

I will document my build and will continue posting here as well.  I did a pretty good amount of research before I bought the Level 1 kit...If you piece together a kit with adjustable strut rods, front and rear shocks, torsion bars and leaf springs, front and rear sway bars, and poly bushings for the lower and upper control arm, you will come close to the price of an XV level 1 kit.

Dave,

That's the kind of objective conclusions that I really appreciate.  A pre-assembled kit should always be price competitive, and I'm glad you feel that's the case.  Thanks for your willingness to document your work, and I hope you put some pics up soon!

-Tim

 

[HP2]

Now I'll dissent a little bit and say if you shop around, you can put together a similar package to the XV kit for around $1800-2000. However, you will need to source it from multiple places and spend a fair amount of time researching who has what, and what pieces will work best together. This means you'll have to understand the complementary front to rear wheel rates, how the sway bar rates all tie in to that, and then spend time dialing the shocks to match the set up you have. The results will give you $1000 in your pocket, a better handling machine, and a deeper understanding. The cost will come in a considerable amount of time to pull it off. By contrast, the XV set up will come to you complete and ready to set up and all complement each other. The amount of time in research, shopping, and dialing it in is already covered for you, so you just need to install it and go.

[TripleT]

Now I'll dissent a little bit and say if you shop around, you can put together a similar package to the XV kit for around $1800-2000. However, you will need to source it from multiple places and spend a fair amount of time researching who has what, and what pieces will work best together. This means you'll have to understand the complementary front to rear wheel rates, how the sway bar rates all tie in to that, and then spend time dialing the shocks to match the set up you have. The results will give you $1000 in your pocket

Wow.  Excellent dissent!  So, you are essentially saying I can pay myself a G to do the research and procurment myself, and end up with a better performing suspension.  That's intriguing, but I don't have confidence in my ability to "understand the complementary front to rear wheel rates, how the sway bar rates all tie in to that" etc.  That being said, would it not be true that if we are just talking LA Cuda's, and we verified that I want an autocross set up minimizing body roll, etc, that there should already be some set up that is fairly objective to determine?  In other words, surely someone else here has done much of that work already?  For a grand, I'm willing to pursue this, and I'm sure would learn a heap 'o knowledge in the process.  Thanks HP2.

[SBDave]

Looks like RMS has QA1's for $140 a piece and adjustable strut rods w/bushings for $200

I agree with HP2, however I think the savings would be closer to $500, if that. XV is $2400 and the parts I listed come out to about $2100 however I'm sure there are some cheaper parts/places.  I think shocks are one of the most critical items and would also be the hardest to optimize.

-Dave

[HP2]

In other words, surely someone else here has done much of that work already? 

Yup, there is. I can help you with that as well as many others on here. I would suggest you look for a copy of the Mike Martin book about mopar suspensions or either of the Mopar Performance books on Chassis or Oval Track Modifications. Even if the rest of us help you get there, you will get a much better grasp of it all by reading either of these.

Looks like RMS has QA1's for $140 a piece and adjustable strut rods w/bushings for $200

I agree with HP2, however I think the savings would be closer to $500, if that. XV is $2400 and the parts I listed come out to about $2100 however I'm sure there are some cheaper parts/places.  I think shocks are one of the most critical items and would also be the hardest to optimize.

-Dave

Wow, okay, XV has dropped their prices considerably since their introduction. 18 months ago that kit was $3500.  Yes, I agree, shocks will be the most critical and most difficult piece to dial in and is probably the biggest advantage of using the XV kit.

But your right, you can source stuff cheaper if you have plan to work to and can spend TIME sourcing your items. I've never paid more than $75 for a sway bar and most I have were in the $50 range from swap meets. By no means are they optimal compared to Helwig or some tubular configurations, but they are a decent value. I saw some adjustable strut rods on moparts for $150. I've found a lot of parts on here that were deals. I'm afraid I will have to pony up some bucks for the shocks though.

That being said, would it not be true that if we are just talking LA Cuda's, and we verified that I want an autocross set up minimizing body roll, etc, that there should already be some set up that is fairly objective to determine? 

You know, if your certain your building an autocrosser, that is actually very easy, as need to go big on most things. It is equally easy to build a drag car. Its all the shades of grey in between those two that make it tough to do.

[cudazappa]

Looks like RMS has QA1's for $140 a piece and adjustable strut rods w/bushings for $200

i don't know where you saw that (just saw the $335 ones) but...
Summit and Jegs has the single adjustables (compression/rebound on one adjuster) for $140 each ($560/set) and the double adjustables for $289 a piece.  That's $1160 for the set.  Now where's the budget for the rest of the suspension.

those shocks look like afco single adjustables, so we'll (for the sake of comparison) assume a $560/set cost.  Now you've got $1840 to play with for the rest of the suspension.

[TripleT]

Since we are talking about XV here, most of the folks I have talked to at Mo' Shows seem to think that XV Level II is "overkill".  What does the extra 5K get you from an actual performance/value perspective?  Is it worth 5K more?  From what I can see, it's really a "professional" package, maybe for serious non-street cars...?

[HP2]

It is simply an over the top, at any cost, suspension application for mopar owners who want all the latest or the best of everything. It is no different than building a 7 second big block street car; what does it really gain you over a strong 440, but it is cool to say you have it. But then again, IMO, not many car owners who have them can fully utilize the flexability of coil over systems anyway, whether eit is Magnumforce, RMS, or someone elses system. However, they all drop a fair amount of weight off the car, which is never a bad things.

Honestly, if you were using your E body in some serious comeptition arenas that do not have the stock suspension requirements, it would be great for those applications. I'm thinking something like an IMSA GT class or NASA American Iron or AI Extreme.  John Buscema, who runs XV, has considerable experience in open road competitions like the Silver State Challenge and the Pony Express. His intention when building the Level 2 set up was to create a clean sheet of paper design that would fit under mopars and provide the ultimate on road holding capability and performance for those type of extreme competition models.

So, is it worth it and what does it get you over good stock set up? Well, the value depends on the application. If your running some high zoot competition, it is definetly worth it for the improvement, adjustability, and easily available replacement parts (it uses predominately vette parts, btw). What will it give you over stock, that really depends on how good a driver you are. I know drivers who can tell when a tire is a couple pounds low on air. If you are that good then you will appreciate what the Level 2 brings to the table. Based on my experience, a solid stock set up with good shocks will serve 90% of the drivers with what they want. A modified set up will get the next 5%. An optimized stock set up will serve the next 3%, and only 2% of the drivers out there will, or could, fully utilize the capability of the L2 system.

But that is just my opinion, stinky as it may be. Personally, in the spirit of a sleeper, I'd rather have what appears to be a stock set up that grips like mad and has others scratching their head about how good it works. But that is probably because most of my experience has been in strictly regulated, stock style, racing classes.

[TripleT]

That's a very clear, nice reply HP2, and very helpful.  Thanks very much. 

[SBDave]

cudazappa:
RMS is Reilly Motorsports.  Shocks and Strut rods are under "Stock Suspension Upgrades"

The XV website shows some of the testing and engineering that went into both of their systems (call them for a free DVD).  L2 is $7.5k for the front and $3.4k for the back, not including brakes or chassis stiffening components. 

http://www.xvmotorsports.com/engineering/index.cfm

I believe the Moparts board has a pretty length thread about Level 2 vs  Alterkation vs ....

-Dave

[IMNCARN82]

I have an RMS full package. And LOVE it! We are going with the XVI stuff in the Charger.  HP2 here gave it to me straight before I bought. He was totally right too...   But to me,In my 'cuda... It was worth every penny. Nobody has anything like this around here.When I pop the hood...Small crowds gather. And it performs plenty good for me here.        Anyone seen those new UCA's with coil mounts? Those and the street lynx would be cool.  I got the cost effective QA1 single adjustable. looking to upgrade down the road.Talking with FOX racing. But XV would be cool too.   

[autoxcuda]

...snip....I got the cost effective QA1 single adjustable. looking to upgrade down the road.Talking with FOX racing. But XV would be cool too.

I'd suggest www.naake.com That's who does a lot of our Circle Track shocks. They offer full rebuild, modifications, super custom builds, shock dyno JUST for shocks. That's really all they do.

They can build about anything you can imagine. They are the type of place who could make a Mopar bolt-in super big buck Penske shock with in car remote adjustable reservoirs if you wanted. Of course if you wanted to spend serious cash for it.

[TripleT]

I have an RMS full package. And LOVE it! We are going with the XVI stuff in the Charger.  HP2 here gave it to me straight before I bought. He was totally right too...   But to me,In my 'cuda... It was worth every penny. Nobody has anything like this around here.When I pop the hood...Small crowds gather. And it performs plenty good for me here.        Anyone seen those new UCA's with coil mounts? Those and the street lynx would be cool.  I got the cost effective QA1 single adjustable. looking to upgrade down the road.Talking with FOX racing. But XV would be cool too.

The RMS stuff is intriguing.....

::Get rid of your poor-performing leaf springs with our
Street-Lynx trangulated 4-bar system. By separating the locating
system from the spring, it's possible to drastically improve geometry, traction, and handling
while using a much lighter spring and shock to provide excellent ride quality and wheel control.
Our system requires no cutting to weld in a single crossbar between the factory
frame rails. Coil-overs mounted ahead of the axle eliminate wheel hop normally associated with
4-bar systems, yet allow stock gas tanks to fit, as well as TTI's off-the-shelf tailpipe kits.
Lower links bolt into stock leaf spring location with the included adjustable front mounts, or
links can be used in conjunction with standard inboard relocation kits and mounted under the frame
rails for increased tire clearance. Axle housing not included.
(1)Choose from Adjustable links with maintenance-free poly/rubber bushings that isolate vibration
or double adjustable links with chrome-moly/teflon high strength rod ends for drag strip use.
(2) Choose from QA1 Proma-Star single adjustable shocks or AFCO custom-valved T2 double adjustable racing shocks for the ultimate in wheel control.
Shipped with our recommended spring rates and free shock adjusting wrench.

Details
 
Weight   94.00 lbs
Price:    $1,795.00::


I assume that's the price for one, not a pair.  And the price for the Alterktion set up looks to be considerably lower the XVL2....

Our complete suspension systems do more than save weight and add clearance. They're
designed with precise geometry for optimum control, whether you're on the road course,
cruising along winding country roads, or driving along pothole-covered city streets.
Durability is second to none with these systems, and they've been tested tough for years
in everything from daily drivers, road courses, and 7-second dedicated strip cars.
Easy to install and work with, the Alterktion system bolts up to factory frame rails, and as such, is
accepted in many classes where other suspension kits are not.
Brake kits are widely available, so if you don't want to use the Wilwood kits we carry, you
can easily choose your own brake kit from any manufacturer.

System comes complete from connection to your steering column, down to the spindles
and includes complete 1-1/16" sway bar package, custom valved power steering rack, and hoses
that will connect to your factory power steering pump.
Engine mount options include complete mounts to block, all are poly bushed spool-type mounts.
Simply add a brake kit to build a complete suspension system.
For more detailed information and photos, see the Tech Pages, and Gallery sections.
Pictured with optional Hemi engine mounts

Details
 
Weight   132.00 lbs
Price:    $3,995.00

But HP2's common sense logic for guys like me who are well within the "90%" is hard to argue with, although I really do "just like" coil overs, and the thought of losing some of that K-member weight.  But I think it would be better to put the money into other areas....anyway that's kind of the conclusion I'm coming to as far as "Level 2" type setups.   The overall value of the XVL1 set up seems pretty good, could someone comment on the Just Suspension's suspension and steering kit for $2995?  Their standard front end kit is $1899, and upper control arms are 399 with a sway bar for 99.  I hope to see some pics soon of the Level 1 install that started this thread!! 

[boydsdodge]

Does anyone have the gas pressure specs for the XV shocks?
The previous owner thought the car rode to hard so he let the gas out.
Can you play with the pressure for different types of drivingThanks.