Author Topic: Vacuum advance guestion  (Read 1498 times)

Offline 67vertman

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Vacuum advance guestion
« on: March 20, 2009 - 11:41:37 PM »
What is the total degree of advance on a stock 1970 Cuda with a 318?  I have looked every where but can't find it.

The timing is set at 0* and I need to know the total degree and at what RPM.

Thanks.



Ron - Born and raised in Southern California

I got the 1970 Cuda, but still need the hot blonde to ride shotgun!

First car -1969 Road Runner 383 4sp

Current ride - 1970 Barracuda 440-6 4 sp Dana 60  (4:10)




Offline hemiken

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2009 - 12:12:21 AM »
I set my timing at 12 degrees initial at idle, and 36 degrees total at 2500 revs. :2thumbs:
1970 Barracuda   (O^--^===|===^--^O)
1971 Barracuda   (O O {]{]{]|[}[}[} O O)
1970 Challenger  (O O [======R/T=] O O)
1971 Challenger  (O O ===== ===== O O)
I pay homage to the best Mopars ever built.

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2009 - 12:46:52 AM »
The stock spec in my Cliltons book is TDC, but most every small block Mope will run best with 36 degrees max total. Where that is at idle on yours is unknown without an adjustable timing light or a mark on your dampner. Probably won't make a hell of a lot of difference with an old 318.
Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

Offline Changin Gears

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2009 - 01:33:02 AM »
The "36 degrees max" is initial + mechnical only, no vacuum.  With vacuum its more like 50 degrees.  Unless I'm going to be doing some major testing, I usually just keep advancing until it starts to detonate at full throttle, then back off  a little.


The goal never changes - Stop the 60' timer with your back tires

Offline Aussie Challenger

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2009 - 04:59:47 AM »
  Do all your testing and tuning with the vac. advance disconnected, don't exceed 36* total as mentioned earlier. The vac advance is adjustable, if you have a manual trans you won't want too much vac advance or your vehicle will start to surge at cruise & possibly at light throttle.   :thumbsup:
  Vac advance is really only an economy devise that is why no race cars have them connected.   :burnout:
Dave

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2009 - 09:17:49 AM »
This Tech article written by our local club president spells it all out
http://tvmoparclub.com/files/tech/Mopar%20Timing.pdf
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline Changin Gears

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2009 - 09:30:50 AM »
This Tech article written by our local club president spells it all out
http://tvmoparclub.com/files/tech/Mopar%20Timing.pdf


I read that before and it states that max advance should be 35 degrees including vacuum, which is incorrect.  Vacuum should not be included in that number.


The goal never changes - Stop the 60' timer with your back tires

Offline AMXguy

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009 - 10:17:27 AM »
1970 R/T SE Challenger
 1970 Superbee
 1969 S code Mach 1
 1967  GTO

Offline 67vertman

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009 - 11:56:44 AM »
Wow, Thanks everyone. 

Mine is a CA Smog car so it says set the timing at 0*. I have an adjustable timing light so setting the total degree is easy.  If I am reading it correctly, and I think I am, I should have around 34 to 36 total degree of timing with the vacuum line plugged.

I will also advance it a couple degrees at a time until I hear detonation and the back it off by 2 degree.

You guys are great



Ron - Born and raised in Southern California

I got the 1970 Cuda, but still need the hot blonde to ride shotgun!

First car -1969 Road Runner 383 4sp

Current ride - 1970 Barracuda 440-6 4 sp Dana 60  (4:10)

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009 - 12:15:20 PM »
I read that before and it states that max advance should be 35 degrees including vacuum, which is incorrect.  Vacuum should not be included in that number.

I agree, but the question still is how to set the vacuum advance, based on the link AMXguy provided the vacuum advance would be part of the base line # as our systems are set up for ported vacuum.  CP does not even like to use the vacuum advance & recommends 36-degrees at 3K-rpm. So would adding 14-degrees of vacuum advance to this to get 50-degrees be the #?     Remember under load the vacuum drops off so under full throttle or pulling a hill the vacuum advance would be negated.
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
Screwed by Photobucket!

Offline quagmire

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009 - 07:23:10 PM »
I personally run 18* of initial, 36* total mechanical.  My vac advance can adds 16* and only needs 7 inches of vacuum to pull in fully.  It is a factory points can for a hi po vette from back in the day.  It works good with my setup since it is only making 14" at idle.  This gives me about 52* total timing, I run pump gas and never have pinging issues even in hot weather.  My personal best was 14MPG so far.  Still working on it.  I have it hooked up to manifold vacuum too, it really helps clean up my idle without causing starter kickback that additional initial would cause. 

I have no stumbles, and my throttle response is awesome.  It's perfectly safe to run high advance numbers at cruise and idle, there is little to no load on the engine and the leaner mixtures take longer to burn so they really need to be started earlier in order to maintain efficiency.  All modern cars also take advantage of this too with computer controlled timing. 

As soon as you crack the throttle open the vacuum advance starts dropping out, lowering to what it should under load.  A properly selected mechanical advance curve and vacuum can should cause no problems on a street car. 

I initially had mine set up with an advance curve that was all in before 3K and nothing else and I was not happy with it.  Mileage was horrible and my idle was much choppier. 
« Last Edit: March 21, 2009 - 08:15:43 PM by quagmire »

Offline 67vertman

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009 - 07:36:01 PM »
I got it dailed in today.  :bananasmi

I am running 10* intial and 34* total mechanical, with no pinging.  I don't have a vacuum guage so I can't tell how many inches.  I have strong manifold vacuum though, finger test, so I would guess it close to 14"



Ron - Born and raised in Southern California

I got the 1970 Cuda, but still need the hot blonde to ride shotgun!

First car -1969 Road Runner 383 4sp

Current ride - 1970 Barracuda 440-6 4 sp Dana 60  (4:10)

Offline 71chally416

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009 - 07:48:25 PM »
On the dyno 1 degree off can be 10hp on a healthy motor so try to get it at 36 total if you can without pingng with the vac unhooked.
Once we had Ronald Reagan, Bob Hope & Johnny Cash. Now we have Obama, No Hope and No Cash!

Offline hemiken

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009 - 08:07:47 PM »
That is great news, i see your Barracuda has the short stainless trim along its sides aswell. :2thumbs:
1970 Barracuda   (O^--^===|===^--^O)
1971 Barracuda   (O O {]{]{]|[}[}[} O O)
1970 Challenger  (O O [======R/T=] O O)
1971 Challenger  (O O ===== ===== O O)
I pay homage to the best Mopars ever built.

Offline 67vertman

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Re: Vacuum advance guestion
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009 - 08:28:34 PM »
On the dyno 1 degree off can be 10hp on a healthy motor so try to get it at 36 total if you can without pingng with the vac unhooked.

This thing is not healthy by any means.... :horse:  bone stock 318.  I can't get out and drive it to far yet, as it isn't street legal yet.  So, I may be able to get some more timing out of her yet.

That is great news, i see your Barracuda has the short stainless trim along its sides aswell. :2thumbs:

Yep, great for parking lot grannies.....but not much for looks.  They will be coming off when I do the body work.



Ron - Born and raised in Southern California

I got the 1970 Cuda, but still need the hot blonde to ride shotgun!

First car -1969 Road Runner 383 4sp

Current ride - 1970 Barracuda 440-6 4 sp Dana 60  (4:10)