synthetic vs regular oil

Author Topic: synthetic vs regular oil  (Read 4691 times)

Offline Srobinson4

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synthetic vs regular oil
« on: March 26, 2009 - 12:11:43 AM »
pros and cons please




Offline snowdog

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009 - 12:07:34 PM »
Well if I'm allowed to say the "M" word here I can tell you that my 2005 Mustang has used Amsoil since day one.  It currently has about 110K and doesn't burn oil or appear to be sludge up.  Oil changes ran any where from 25K to 30K miles.  It's a V-6 with a 5-speed stick.  Hopefully I haven’t just jinxed myself by mentioning this.  I guess I should knock on wood or maybe slip-on-oil or something like that.

Snow Doggie
Scott (aka: snowdoggie) 1970 Challenger - 440 Modified - 4 Spd - White on Black - 1970 Cuda - 383 Magnum - 4 Spd - Drk. Green on Black - Howell, MI
See my "I'm gonna fix'm up someday" story at Cars in Barns.  **Dodge Main 76-78**
http://www.carsinbarns.com/Mopars%20In%20Barns/pg113mopar.htm

Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009 - 01:40:25 PM »
The 1999 F250 SuperDuty V10 I purchased recently supposedly has used synthetic since Day 1.  It's a former construction supervisor's truck, so it's seen some hard work, but it's very well cared for.  It doesn't leak or use any oil so far as I can tell - with 240,000 miles on it.  :biggrin:
Greg
2003 Ford Escape XLS
Currently Mopar-less :(

Offline cjm

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2009 - 02:09:35 PM »
I too have a Ford Truck (Expedition) 1999 5.4 Triton  196,000  never missed an oil change Mobil 1 5w30 synth....   Still runs like a top after 10 years...

Offline usraptr

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2009 - 02:58:54 PM »
I've been running Mobil 1 synthetic in all my vehicles since it first came out.  I've never had a engine failure of any kind in any vehicle that I've run it in.  I have a 1999 Chrysler LHS with a V-6 engine that I've used Mobil 1 synthetic in every since it was broke in at 10K miles.  Changed oil and filter every  5K miles like clockwork.  It now has 180,000 miles and still runs like new.  Doesn't burn oil, leak, etc. People who drive/ride in the car can't believe it has that many miles on it.  I also run it in my wives new car, Truck , Harley, boat and ATV.  I'm sold.  Worth every dime that it costs extra. Google synthetic oils and you will find lots of lab tests between synthetic and dino oil.  Synthetic always comes out way ahead.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline 6packCuda

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2009 - 04:54:15 PM »
2000 Ford F150 with 5.4 litre. I've ran Mobil1 5w20 synthetic in it since it had 50,000 miles on it. Changed oil everyi 5,000 miles. It now has 150,000 miles on it and runs like a champ. Doesn't use or leak any oil at all.

I think an engine will run forever with conventional oil as long as you change it often. In every quart of conventional oil, about half of it is additives. These additives break down after a couple thousand miles and provide little protection for your engine after they've broken down. A quart of synthetic oil has about 1/2 a thimble of additives in it. Much less to break down. That's why you can go a lot more miles between oil changes with synthetic. It's well worth the extra $ IMO.
Dave

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2009 - 06:45:47 PM »
pros and cons please

I think you can see where the preference is for synthetics. The downer is it costs more $$.

If we are speaking of older engines with flat tappet cams, then make sure whatever you use has ZDDP added to it. The older engines need zinc for lubrication.

Mike

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Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2009 - 08:39:07 PM »
I wish I knew more about fluid dynamics because of some of the hype on synthetic oils. I am a machinist by trade and some of the reasoning makes no sense to me. That is that many folks swear that synthetic oil is too "slick" Comp Cams went as far as telling me that if I ran synthetic oil with my new cam, that they would not warranty it if it failed (I am not kidding on what they told me and they also said they had wiped cams they could show me). My engine builder has the same belief on synthetics. He goes on to say it is fine and great for stock, non-modified cars, but engines that are exotic builds, high revving, high spring pressure rates, extreme loads ect. will not tolerate synthetics very well and has documented proof to back it up. He doesn't sell Amsoil or any other synthetic, so has no ulterior motive. I tend to believe him and he recommends Rotella T for my new motor. I know the molecules are smaller with synthetics, but the other specifics for synthetic being too slick just seems odd. If a shaft in a journal as an example takes 1,000 psi load to squeeze out a film of petroleum based oil, then syntheitc oil with the same shaft will take 10,000 psi. tThe numbers I used are a guess, but used only to make a comparison. I have used Mobil 1 in all my family cars with awesome results, but will not be using it in my stroker motor. There seems to be too much hard evidence on what I have mentioned above and I think the jury is still out on the subject. I don't want to risk bearing failure on what has been proven even in just a few examples until the jury comes back!! Anyone else heard data on this. This is a very interesting subject and a lot to be said on it!! :2thumbs:


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Offline 6packCuda

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009 - 08:59:44 PM »
I have heard that you can't break in a fresh motor with synthetic, but after it got several thousand miles on it, it's safe. I hadn't heard what moparmaniac59 said about synthetic in HP engines. It's definitely something worth investigating further.
Dave

Offline usraptr

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2009 - 09:54:08 PM »
The alleged info that synthetic is two "slick" is a urban legend.  Read the lab tests.  I agree you should get at least 5k miles on a new rebuild with dino oil before switching to synthetic, although BMW, Mercedes and several other high end manufactures with Hi tech, hi rev, engines run synthetic right from the factory.  I seriously doubt they would run an oil that would risk being too "slick" or wash out their bearings.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2009 - 01:15:51 AM »
From Wikipedia, the reason synthetics aren't recommended for break-in on older-tech engines is because it actually works too well!

The lower friction may make them unsuitable for break-in (i.e. the initial run-in period of the vehicle) where friction is desirable to cause wear. Improved engine part machining has made break-in less critical than it once was though. Many modern cars now come with synthetic oil as a factory fill.


So, if I'm reading this correctly, it's the improved manufacturing of all engine components in modern engines that allow synthetics to be used as a factory fill. We all hear of modern engines getting torn down with 200,000 miles on them that still look like new.  Modern design and machining tolerances make that possible.  Our older engines actually require friction to allow the parts to seat together properly - the whole reason you can't throw old lifters on a new cam. 
Greg
2003 Ford Escape XLS
Currently Mopar-less :(

Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2009 - 05:20:11 AM »
I seriously don't think Comp Cams or Harley Davidson would make the negative claims they do about synthetic oils based on an "Urban legend" nor are the engine blocks sitting on the floor of my friend's machine shop an urban legend. Ther is some validity to the claims, I just wish there was some more specific info on the data!! :dunno: :clueless: :dunno:


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Offline Aussie Challenger

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2009 - 08:48:42 AM »
  I always use a thin regular oil when breaking in a new motor, the rings won't bed in properly if a synthetic is used. After about 500 miles the rings should be bedded in if the correct procedure is followed, I have always changed the oil & filter at 1000 miles using a quality synthetic oil.    :working:       
  Manufacturers have tried over the years to bed rings in before the motor has even been fired up with little success. From my info from manufacturers they use a special blend from the oil companies which is avaliable only to them at the factory, not even dealers get that oil.    :nono:
Dave

Offline usraptr

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2009 - 03:03:03 PM »
FYI, after years of not recommending synthetic oil and even saying it would void the warranty if you run it, Harley Davidson did a 180 and now recommends synthetic and even runs it in their new engines, since about 2005/6, from the factory.  They even sell synthetic oil under their own brand name at the dealerships.  As I said, I've been running Mobil 1 it in my hog since it had 10K miles.  I fully agree that our older style classic car engines should be broken in with dino oil for the first 5-10K miles before switching to synthetic.  One more comment, if synthetic is too slick and doesn't provide the protection that dino oil does, then why do most of your NASCAR and professional drag racers run it in their $100K engines?   Bottom line, synthetic provides better protection against heat,  and doesn't break down as fast under heat and pressure.  Once again, read the numeorus comparison lab tests on the internet.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda.  Matching numbers 440 U Code, 4 speed pistol grip, Rallye dash, AM 8 Track, Shaker hood, 15 inch rallye wheels, Dana 60 4.10, Super Track Pak.  One of 134 - 440 "U" coupes codes built in 1970 and one of 100 - 440 Super Track Paks built in 1970.

Restoration pictures at:  http://spanks4thememory.smugmug.com/Cars/70-Cuda/7240639_M24oi#465274575_2MBqW
(Edited 8-1-17)

"usraptr" = United States raptor - bird of prey = United States Bald Eagle.  FYI, somebody else thought of it first so I had to drop the "O" in raptor.

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: synthetic vs regular oil
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2009 - 05:16:00 PM »
For me Mobil 1 for my neon R/T's first 90k and it always ran fine. The only problem I have ever had with synthetics is using the synthetic gear lube in my sure grips. I think there are 2 posts that shed some light on why synthetic might not be the best for our older engines and that is the lack of zinc. The only way to get a decent amount of zinc in engine oil now is either to use specific brands of diesel engine oil like Rotella, or a couple of top tier type oils like Redline, Amsoil or Royal Purple. I am just naming high end brand names, I dont know for sure which of them have the zinc in there for our older engines but I am pretty sure Royal Purple is one.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*