The times, they have changed!!!

Author Topic: The times, they have changed!!!  (Read 2711 times)

Offline burnt orange

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The times, they have changed!!!
« on: March 26, 2009 - 06:02:53 PM »
Just thinking about Henry Ford and trying to relate it to today.

The first Model T's were sold for $825 and took over 12 hours.  With the introduction of the assembly line, he cut the time down to under three hours and the price down to $260..... and actually increased wages at the same time - for the workers!  He more than doubled their wages and cut the work day from 9hours down to 8 hours!  Everyone could afford a car.

Today, if a manufacturer (not necessarily automotive, but ANY manufacturer) found a way to cut costs and speed production, how many would do a similar thing? 

That sort of spirit and vision is what made America the great country it was.  Not just Ford, but throughout the country. Since then, greed, profiteering, corruption, lobby groups, big business and multinationals, political interference, shareholders, lawyers, unions, and an unconcerned selfish population have all had their slice of the American Pie and look where things are now!!  There are reasons for all these things, but the combined results are disasterous!  The rich get MUCH richer, the middle class gets way smaller and the poor get poorer.

 
Any individual entrepreneur doesn't have a chance.  Either he will be crushed or taken over or bought out.  In any case, there is no incentive to be charitable or even a "good" employer.  All that matters is the $$$$$

The whole house of cards comes down and we land up bailing out these silly huge corporations to the benefit of their big shareholders, while everyone else suffers.  Let them fail and get things back on track......it may hurt bad for a while, but America the Great will rise again, and far better. 

If we let things go the way they are now, in 30 years all the call centers for Indian and Chinese companies will be located in the US, probably in old shut down factories in Detroit!


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Offline Srobinson4

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2009 - 10:26:12 PM »
Boy do I agree with you!

Offline brads70

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2009 - 11:02:59 PM »
Yep that's what seems to happen though out history when Honour and integrity take a holiday!
Brad
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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2009 - 10:37:35 AM »
Don't just blame the greedy manufacturer/employer... Go take a look in the mirror & at your neighbors. How many will shop the discount stores rather than the local business that may be a few dollars more for a similar item, how many will choose the lower priced item regardless of where it was made.  As time goes on you have less options on where & what you can buy & guess what, before you know it your paying just as much at the not so convenient super store where the only thing they sell is imported crap.   
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Offline 72hemi

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2009 - 11:06:42 AM »
I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart, and I buy American made tools (even my power tools which cost a lot more than their imported counterparts). I also try to buy my parts (restoration, performance or replacement) American as well although that can be a chore. I try to buy as much American products as I can. Clothing and electronics seems to be a problem finding American made though. Hopefully this country will wake up and jump on this band wagon, because it is needed for us to thrive through the next century.
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Offline hebeegbz

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2009 - 12:26:21 PM »
california plans to ban all black on cars starting in 2016 along with other dark colors mandated by c.a.r.b .obama says good deal .Henry would have said o crap .
thread gone in 60 seconds

Offline burnt orange

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2009 - 12:44:08 PM »
I don't want to blame the manufacturers, and I almost always buy domestically produced items even if they are a bit more, however, this economic disaster we are in has led me to some unpleasant conclusions. 

Looking at the salaries, bonuses, buyouts, stock options, perks, tax breaks, and other benefits that the upper management and executives receive infuriates me.  Granted, these things are merely a drop in the bucket of the overall costs that we are faced with.  But what it does is create an attitude where everyone feels some sort of entitlement to luxuries and the high life and they will do whatever is needed to acheive these material goals. 

Both loyalty to a company by it's employees and loyalty of a company to it's employees have gone by the wayside.  In the face of excessive union demands and huge executive salaries, pure selfishness rules.  This selfishness, combined with cheap goods from overseas results in what we see now! 

I agree, buy local, avoid imports, but be willing to take the hit your standard of living in order to get things back on track.  It won't be cheap, easy or pleasant.  And EVERYONE, from the CEOs on down had better be willing to make some sacrifices.  Can we do it?  Who knows.  The alternative really sucks.
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Offline JH27N0B

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2009 - 02:50:35 PM »
It seems to me that most major corporations mainly care about taking care of their senior level executives and consider everyone else to be disposable.
I used to work for a company that is the countries largest supplier of aftermarket brake parts.  We had factories at many locations in the US and Canada and had thousands of employees.  Around 6 years ago they started to purchase some parts and components from China, to use in the lower cost "second line".  The premium line was still US, but over the next few years they started closing down factories and buying more and more product from China.  This June the last US factory is closing.
They started to sell Chinese product for "prime line" too.  But the prices you pay for the prime line product didn't drop when they switched to Chinese product.  The only thing that changed is the margin, they now make more profit on every prime line part they sell.  Bottom line, thousands of US and Canadian citizens lose their jobs, customers don't save any money, but the company makes a little more profits.
How can you chalk that up to being anything more than greed, pure and simple?
Their biggest customer sponsors a Nascar car that is a Toyota, so I guess they don't care where their suppliers get their parts either.
I live near the US headquarters of a power tool company.  A large German company bought up a lot of power tool companies and consolidated the companies in this headquarters.  They are just now shutting down the last little bit of manufacturing they were doing in the US.  Everything is made in China and Taiwan.  The engineering and testing is done here, but manufacturing isn't.  I interviewed there a few years back, and later worked with a couple people who had worked there and left.  It is supposed to be a revolving door there, long hours, frequent trips to China, it seems like most of their employees jump ship as soon as they can find another job.
The guys I worked with who worked there were talking about an employee meeting there one day where someone brought up the high turnover, and managements response was "if you people don't like it here, there is the door".
Makes you long for the good old days when you could get a job for a company you respected and work there for your whole career and retire with a nice gold watch.
Now it seems like most of us underlings are just "temps" and the upper management takes care of themselves to the extent that even if they lose their jobs, they walk away with enough money to retire with more money than most of us can even imagine.  :puke:
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009 - 02:53:17 PM by JH27N0B »

Offline Pistol Gripper

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2009 - 03:05:48 PM »
Quote
Today, if a manufacturer (not necessarily automotive, but ANY manufacturer) found a way to cut costs and speed production, how many would do a similar thing?

And if they did, the government would find a way to tax the bejeezes out of the manufacturer & the employees. Because you know " We need to spread the wealth around "

P.G.
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A merica

Offline Sean

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2009 - 03:54:47 PM »
It is truly a sad state of affairs when greed, excess, and power outweigh morals, ethics, and values.  The utter and blatant disregard for the impacts of how what you do now affects what happens later when golden age of the economy is over and the markets go down the tubes is despicable at best.  In the case of AIG, the managements shushing of their bean counters and economic advisors who warned of this possibility when times were good is unforgivable. 

Even a dollar a year is too much for the CEOs that ran their companies and OUR economy into the ground is too much.  'A fair day's wages for a fair day's work' - how do you quantify the value of ruining people’s lives.  I'd say jail for their negligence.  Or better yet, put them out on the street and auction off all their wealth and excess and use that money to recoup our economy - or put food on someone's table.  Let them watch their wealth dwindle and then throw them in jail.

There is no excuse for the risks they took and the jeopardy they caused.

Just my two cents... 

Offline burnt orange

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2009 - 03:58:52 PM »
And if they did, the government would find a way to tax the bejeezes out of the manufacturer & the employees. Because you know " We need to spread the wealth around "

P.G.


You are absolutely right!!!

But isn't it "government of the people, by the people, for the people"  and if so, how did we let it get away from us?  What can we do about it? :villagers: :aarg:

I just came across this video.  You may not agree with all of it, but it has a good beat that you can dance to! ;)
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009 - 04:22:38 PM by burnt orange »
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Offline HP2

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2009 - 05:47:23 PM »
Just thinking about Henry Ford and trying to relate it to today.

The first Model T's were sold for $825 and took over 12 hours.  With the introduction of the assembly line, he cut the time down to under three hours and the price down to $260..... and actually increased wages at the same time - for the workers!  He more than doubled their wages and cut the work day from 9hours down to 8 hours!  Everyone could afford a car.

What percentage of income was a car then compared to now? Somehow I have a feeling we are paying a much higher percetnage of income to this item than in years past.

Heck, my wife and I bust our humps to get good annual reviews every year. The net result is that even with this effort, our pay increases usually only cover the increase in our benefit payments, so we are constantly breaking even. How do many others continue to get by if they are experienceing wage creep that will slowly put them into lower income brackets?

The funny thing about all the reotoric in Washington about all these "scandals" is that the lawmakers are just as guilty as all the big company execs that are getting away with these things. The politicians forced the bailout bills to be signed before the implications were fully understood, they ignored whistleblowers who came forward for the past decade, they neglected to enforce the watch dog agencies to abide by their charters. They can blame themselves for a big part of the mess, but they won't and too many of us will let them get away with it too.

Offline arcticmopar

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2009 - 05:58:52 PM »
Don't just blame the greedy manufacturer/employer... Go take a look in the mirror & at your neighbors. How many will shop the discount stores rather than the local business that may be a few dollars more for a similar item, how many will choose the lower priced item regardless of where it was made.  As time goes on you have less options on where & what you can buy & guess what, before you know it your paying just as much at the not so convenient super store where the only thing they sell is imported crap.
Dont want to try and hijack but just had to add something. Even up here in Canada's north there are a lot of locals that will only by local if you can beat an "outside" price by 10-15%! They will gladly pay more and have it shipped in than by local! Most locals are employed by either the Territorial or federal goverment and both will give you extra holidays or pay for some fuel/airfare if and only if you prove that you left the Territory! How's that for supporting your local economy! :swear:
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Offline 73dce

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2009 - 07:12:05 PM »
I agree with Bullitt.  This all started a long time ago when people started buying all this foreign crap to save a few bucks.  Its all junk.  Someone made a comment about buying american power tools, I don't know of any, even snap-on, mac and matco tools are built overseas now.  I also agree with JH about companies slowly outsourcing everything, its sickening.  The big 3 are well on their way to the same thing.  I think the only way we pull out of this fully is to get rid of the greedy execs and bring jobs back to the US.  Oh and something needs to be done about the bickering politicians. :2cents:

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2009 - 07:19:57 PM »
Man we are so far upside down that its virtually impossible to find made in the U.S.A. stuff. Remember when that place in Taiwan actually named their plant U.S.A. so they could stamp their parts "Made In the U.S.A."?  Anymore that does not mean what it used to. We are slipping further and further into a monstrous import/export deficit that pretty much signs our death certificate as a world power in almost every phase of manufacturing.
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