The times, they have changed!!!

Author Topic: The times, they have changed!!!  (Read 2708 times)

Offline priderocks

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009 - 07:44:49 PM »
I have no problem with high exec pay. Here's why. Simple economics dictates that if execs squander their company resources on themselves, they will become less competitive in the marketplace. They will have less money to retain the best workers, less for product developement, etc. Their competitors will begin chipping away at their customer base. If left alone (and those words are the key), those forces will work together to stabilize the business. The problem is AIG was not left alone. It should have been allowed to fail, regardless of the supposed disaster it would have meant for the financial market. This economic piper WILL be payed, sooner or later. If you want to get upset with someone, the folks in D.C. are the ones.

Here's the second reason high exec pays are ok. If you are upset with someone getting fifty million a year, how much IS ok, and who are you going to let determine that? Is five million ok? How about one million? A quarter-mil? How about anything more than what you make? Trust me, you probably won't even have a job in an economy where the incentive for risk-taking is taken away or tampered with. This is why communist economies are typically crap.

Third reason- it's dumb to demonize the risk takers. Anyone heard of "Kristallnacht"?  This was a pogrom against Jewish business owners in Germany. The Nazi party worked the populace up into a freny about Jews, and the people destroyed about 7,500 Jewish businesses. I thought of this when I saw the dumb people protesting outside AIG execs homes. That's how it starts. Demonize the ones who created your job. That's real smart. The rich make easy targets, don't they?

 If you have a problem with "overpaid" execs, think about how much your favorite sports figure makes per game, which YOU support by your tv viewing or ticket purchases. Is Kobe Bryant worth a hundred grand per appearance? Sure he is. He's worth it because he can get it.




Offline plumcrazy704406

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2009 - 07:50:44 PM »
this is a difficult post to respond to. it raises many questions about capitalism and the employee or public employee sector. bottom line, in a nutshell, is how do we have our cake and eat it too? we are self employed, in sales, and present many product, both N.A. and offshore. why? it's because the public wants it. has our greed for cheap $$$ product made us blind? are we jealous of the companies we present or work for? for making a profit? maybe?for us, no, not really. if anyone researched the fine print on product, there is a good chance even if its made in the N.A.s, that part of the product is offshore. is it all about the company making $$$? you bet it is! the company has to make $$$. one way or another. If you allow these horrendous bonuses(mainly a shareholder issue) and dare I say wages, to the exec's, you are partly to blame. strength is in #'s and a true company would't rip the employee's. what ever happened to a good old fashioned boston tea party? whatever happened to fair treatment? we believe, that everyone should have a chance to succeed, and in the N.A.s you have that chance. but what are we willing to give, for that?
it's always a challenge to find a happy medium, but i suppose the bottom line is, if the company can't make money, you don't have a company.
keep in mind, there is alot more $$$ wise to running a company, cost wise, then just employee cost!
This thought may not be politically correct, but is an opinion offered. It may be correct? or it may be wrong? It is not designed to appease those needing shelter from the real world.

Offline burnt orange

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2009 - 08:11:36 PM »
I have no problem with high exec pay. Here's why. Simple economics dictates that if execs squander their company resources on themselves, they will become less competitive in the marketplace. So they will simply outsource to China or wherever. They will have less money to retain the best workers, less for product developement, etc. Their competitors will begin chipping away at their customer base. If left alone (and those words are the key), those forces will work together to stabilize the business. Execs are so highly paid now and bonuses are so large, that a business failing under them does not hurt too much.  I could live large for a long time on $50 mil! The problem is AIG was not left alone. It should have been allowed to fail, regardless of the supposed disaster it would have meant for the financial market. This economic piper WILL be payed, sooner or later. If you want to get upset with someone, the folks in D.C. are the ones. I agree!

Here's the second reason high exec pays are ok. If you are upset with someone getting fifty million a year, how much IS ok, and who are you going to let determine that? It is usually determined by a board of directors who simply tag theis compensation to the CEO's.  The more they grant him, the more they get.  Is five million ok? How about one million? A quarter-mil? You tell me - how much would you need to provide very well for you, your children and grandchildren?  How about anything more than what you make? Trust me, you probably won't even have a job in an economy where the incentive for risk-taking is taken away or tampered with. This is why communist economies are typically crap.

Third reason- it's dumb to demonize the risk takers. Again, what risks? Anyone heard of "Kristallnacht"?  This was a pogrom against Jewish business owners in Germany. The Nazi party worked the populace up into a freny about Jews, and the people destroyed about 7,500 Jewish businesses. I thought of this when I saw the dumb people protesting outside AIG execs homes. That's how it starts. Demonize the ones who created your job. That's real smart. The rich make easy targets, don't they?

 If you have a problem with "overpaid" execs, think about how much your favorite sports figure makes per game, which YOU support by your tv viewing or ticket purchases. Is Kobe Bryant worth a hundred grand per appearance? Sure he is. He's worth it because he can get it. Yup, I got a problem with them too, which is why I don't watch them or buy their tickets,  but they are not really affecting the economy of the US are they?

I am a retired teacher on a fixed income of $2750 CDN per month. No medical or dental.  My wife is an HR administrator in a seniors care facility for $19CDN/hr, who, as of today, has had her hours cut to 20 hours per week.  There goes her benefits and more than half her salary.  I still have 2 kids in high school who are working at McD's half a dozen hours per week at min wage.    My family is fed, clothed, entertained, and healthy.  My wife stayed home while my kids were young. I sort of feel that in 35 years of teaching I have actually contributed to society in some way thatI feel is worthwhile.

Yeah, $50,000,000 sounds pretty good.
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Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2009 - 08:48:55 PM »
I've heard a lot of comments on the evil rich. I'm not talking about some of the execs that do nothing and earn outrageous bonus money for non-performance or the ponzi scheme ripoff artists. Just the plain old rich that keep getting richer. How'd they get rich in the first place?? Maybe hard work and smart choices. My uncle was a self made millionaire. He grew up during the great depression, raised 4 kids, served in the military, was a war veteran. When he died he was worth many millions he made from his business!! He got richer because he was smart and worked hard, No one gave him anything. Let's tax the evil rich some more!! What a lot of folks don't realize is that the richest 1% of taxpayers in this country will have paid more than 40% of the income tax burden. Yep, read those figures again!! Two-thirds of the people in the top tax bracket are small business owners. They provide 70% of existing jobs and 80% of all new jobs in the economy. The top 50% of taxpayers will account for 97% of all federal income taxes. When it comes to the bottom 50%, they pay just 3%. When you get to the bottom 45% of income earners.....guess what they pay in income taxes??? NOTHING, ZERO, NADA. Some food for thought!! It seems our congress in all their wisdom wants to further  punish and burden the folks that are paying the most taxes and providing the most jobs!! :swear: :stomp:

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Offline burnt orange

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2009 - 09:54:03 PM »
Please don't misunderstand me.  I have absolutely nothing against those who worked hard and smart and are successful.  That is the American way, and is what made America a world leader in industry and business.    Any businessman who has compassion for his employees and shares in the downs as well as the good times gets my respect.  Hey, I even respect Bill Gates!

No, it is the money barons who walk over anyone and everyone in their creep to the top who bug me.  Sure, your figures are probably correct re taxes etc, but how many of that elevated group manage to avoid taxes and don't pay the % that they really should.  How many of those same people are living large while their companies are outsourcing and laying off their loyal employees so they can make even more. 

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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2009 - 10:09:33 PM »
Im sorry but whoever thinks that the rich pay the most percentagewise in taxes are totally wrong. The rich have been jumping through loopholes with their money for decades. The problem is that rich is never rich enough. Everyone covets what their richer neighbor has and once your a millionaire you want to be a multimillionaire and then you want to be a billionaire and then......it never ends. To be truthful though, how many of us would really be any different? Easy to say when most of us live paycheck to paycheck but give each one of us a boatload of money and see which way we gravitate.
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Offline farmertan

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2009 - 12:08:50 AM »
I heard the other day that there was 330 billionaires in america right now. and we had more millionaires than ever before but i think that number is dropping fast.
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Offline burnt orange

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2009 - 12:57:02 AM »
I heard the other day that there was 330 billionaires in america right now.

Yeah, but do they have Cudas????
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Offline sloop

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2009 - 01:06:16 AM »
Yeah, but do they have Cudas????

No,No,No,  The super wealthy are good decision makers... they all have Challengers

Offline burnt orange

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2009 - 01:23:35 AM »
 :roflsmiley: :roflsmiley: :roflsmiley: :roflsmiley:
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Offline priderocks

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2009 - 02:08:35 AM »
moparmaniacs is right on the stats about the rich paying all the taxes. Believe it or not, it is true. Here in California the top 1% of wage earners pay 40% of the states' income tax. These are the people who invest heavily in stocks, start companies, buy  two or three D-9 Cats at a time. When you clobber these people with high taxes in the name of sock-it-to-the-rich, guess who loses? You, me, and the assembly line workers at Caterpillar.

If the rich "dodge" taxes, it's because there exists provisions in the tax code that allow them to do so. They would be stupid not to. I take advantage of every single deduction I possibly can come tax time. So do you, unless you are an idiot. I pay a skilled guy to ferret out those "loopholes" for me. These people didn't get to where they are being morons.

Greed knows no boundaries. There are greedy rich and greedy poor. Look at the prices guys are asking for stuff at Carlisle, or on ebay. 

Offline plumcrazy704406

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2009 - 07:53:59 AM »
Im sorry but whoever thinks that the rich pay the most percentagewise in taxes are totally wrong. The rich have been jumping through loopholes with their money for decades. The problem is that rich is never rich enough. Everyone covets what their richer neighbor has and once your a millionaire you want to be a multimillionaire and then you want to be a billionaire and then......it never ends. To be truthful though, how many of us would really be any different? Easy to say when most of us live paycheck to paycheck but give each one of us a boatload of money and see which way we gravitate.

Whats rich? 50k 100k 250k a year? We generally work 5 12-16 hr days and two of 6-8. yes we have benefits of writeoffs, but we still pay a crapload of taxes. Now, I don't have a problem paying taxes, I have a problem with how the gov. uses it! Do I like the fact we are upwords of the 50% bracket? nope sorry. so yes I will take every advantage that is available to us.
This thought may not be politically correct, but is an opinion offered. It may be correct? or it may be wrong? It is not designed to appease those needing shelter from the real world.

Offline moparmaniac59

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2009 - 08:08:22 AM »
And why do business owners outsource their work?? Because the government peanlizes them for doing the work here in the US with ridiculous tax burdens/codes. If this country is going to turn around we've got to make it advantageous for our home grown business owners to do business here in the US. How about a flat tax!! I am all for it!! Fire the IRS!!! :swear:


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Offline 73dce

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2009 - 09:24:13 AM »
If I made $1,000,000 in a year and you tax me 50% I still have $500,000 which makes me very wealthy.  If I make $30,000 a year and you tax me 28%, that means I'm poor and can't afford luxuries like Cuda's and Challengers.  Or in my case, I'm probably gonna be stuck at Wal-mart making minimum wage.  Point is, tax the crap out of rich people, they can afford it.

Offline HP2

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Re: The times, they have changed!!!
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2009 - 09:36:14 AM »
I've got no problem with the rich being rich. I've got no problem with multi million dollar compensations for executives.

I do take issue with politicians who steal from the cookie jar while chasitizing those who they think are taking from the cookie jar. I also take issue with my government who tax American companies to such a level that they feel they have to go overseas to remain competitive.

Offshore manufacturing isn't always about workers wages. In many cases it is based just as much on tax liability.

Case in point, I lost one of the better jobs I've had not because my division couldn't compete on price, we could, or quality, we were better, or turn around time, we were faster, but because a foreign government granted tax exempt status on all earnings generated out of the facility for ten years.