Author Topic: master cylinder need help  (Read 6944 times)

Offline kmyles

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master cylinder need help
« on: March 30, 2009 - 11:17:21 PM »
how can you rebuild it? Is there a thread with a step by step??And what can it be painted with. I had it painted black but it peeled of???
 :1zhelp: :1zhelp: :1zhelp:

BTW the Car has power brakes.......
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009 - 11:35:16 PM by kmyles »
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Kevin



Mopar Lover....Cuda's....Challengers Rule!!!!
- 1951 Dodge - 2 door hardtop (Sold!!)
- 1971 Dodge Challenger
- 2012 Dodge Challenger Yellowjacket

Hard to believe what 20 years will do!!!!




Offline Bullitt-

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2009 - 11:45:29 PM »
how can you rebuild it? Is there a thread with a step by step??And what can it be painted with. I had it painted black but it peeled of???
 :1zhelp: :1zhelp: :1zhelp:

BTW the Car has power brakes.......

  Not much to rebuilding , basically just a couple of seals to replace, comes apart by removing a snap ring...Smooth out the bore with crocus cloth or hone if pitted....
   I have found nothing that will hold up to standard brake fluid but I'm seriously considering changing to silicone fluid to avoid the finish issues
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline kmyles

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2009 - 12:17:20 AM »
so the brake fluid is what peeled my paint?? Has anyone ever tried the POR15 paint on this??
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Kevin



Mopar Lover....Cuda's....Challengers Rule!!!!
- 1951 Dodge - 2 door hardtop (Sold!!)
- 1971 Dodge Challenger
- 2012 Dodge Challenger Yellowjacket

Hard to believe what 20 years will do!!!!

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2009 - 12:43:01 AM »
Yep...DOT-3 will remove paint... I was just studying the situation & there is a better solution called DOT-5.1 or DOT-4plus that is not silicone(seems silicone has some drawbacks), is compatible with DOT-3, & from what I can tell is not as corrosive... 
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
Screwed by Photobucket!

Offline JH27N0B

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2009 - 12:34:00 PM »
I have rebuilt and restored a number of master cylinders.  It helped that I used to work for a brake part manufacturer!
There are kits available for many master cylinders, but not for others.  Are you trying to rebuild the master for the '70 in your avatar? Is it a disc or a drum brake car and is it the original master cylinder? You mention black paint, so I am guessing you have a disc.
You list a '71 Challenger in your bio, those use a 1-1/32" kit that should be easy to find at NAPA or other parts stores.
There is no kit available currently for the '70 disc brake master cylinder that I am aware of.  This MC can be identified by the casting number on the bottom which is 2229171.  This is what I have on my convertible and on my T/A so I know it well.
You might be able to work with your local parts store to find kits for different '70 disc brake cars and pirate the seals from those kits to rebuild the pistons on yours.  When I worked at the brake company I was able to dig through samples until I found correct seals to rebuild mine.
I first media blast my casting after disassembling it, then I clean up the bore using a cylinder hone I bought from a tool vendor at a swap meet, they are easy to find. You mount them in a drill and run it in and out of the bore, after lubricating with a little brake fluid, to clean it up.
If your bore is pitted, you are probably not going to be successful.  If you hone it enough to get the pits out you will have increased the bore diameter enough that you will get leaking or maybe even no braking when pushing the pedal because the seals won't hold pressure!
Therefore if you have pitting or a bore that has been honed to too large a diameter, the cylinder must be sent in to be sleeved with a stainless steel or brass sleeve.
Next you replace the brass seats from the outlets with new ones that come in the kits.  The kits contain screws that can be used to pull the old seats out of the outlets. You can place the new ones in the holes and push them into place by carefully tightening in some brake line.  The brass is soft and you don't want to distort the brass too much until you are installing the MC on the car and tightening the brake lines during your installation.
After replacing the pistons with new ones from a kit, or by carefully replacing the old seals on the pistons (and making sure they face the correct way!), install the pistons in the bore.  It is best to prebleed the master cylinder on the bench before installing on the car, this will save you a ton of time and effort.
As far as painting, brake fluid will certainly remove the paint.  DOT 5 is nice if you use it as it will not damage the paint.
However if you use DOT 3 or 4, and your cap seal is tight, all is not lost.  When prebleeding and installing the master cylinder, wipe any fluid that spills off immediately before it has a chance to damage the paint.  I have touched up minor damage with a spray can and it looks nice.
You can send your master cylinder off to be rebuilt.  I use Brake and Equipment Warehouse up in Minneapolis. 
Here is Brake and Equipment warehouse's website:
http://www.brakeplace.com/
They are great to work with, if you do, tell them Brad who used to work at Brake Parts sent you!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2009 - 12:38:54 PM by JH27N0B »

Offline kmyles

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2009 - 05:32:50 PM »
I'm doing a 71 challenger. The picture in my avatar is one i found somewhere along the line, way before I had my challey. the bottom numbers on the master cylinder are 3461187. I talked to my local parts store and they have a replacemnet for my car( a rebuilt one) for $30 bucks. It looks different on the top but they say it will work. Its a M1323 made by Fenco. there is also a Raybestos  part number MC36307 for $106 dollars. What do ya think, go with the rebuilt one????

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Kevin



Mopar Lover....Cuda's....Challengers Rule!!!!
- 1951 Dodge - 2 door hardtop (Sold!!)
- 1971 Dodge Challenger
- 2012 Dodge Challenger Yellowjacket

Hard to believe what 20 years will do!!!!

Offline JH27N0B

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2009 - 06:04:16 PM »
That casting number is the original casting number for '71-'75 disc brake Mopars. So it is fairly common.  If you check around with several sources for rebuilts you might well find a rebuilt original.  I have heard guys saying they'd go to places like Autozone and the clerk would let them look at their rebuilts of a certain part number the guy was looking for until he found an rebuilt original.
I think 1323 is the number for a '67-70 drum brake master cylinder. Usually they have a bolt on filler cap.  It will install and should function OK, but being a drum brake master cylinder it does not have the fluid capacity for the primary (front) brake circuit.  If you check your fluid often and top off as the pads wear and the caliper pistons move out, you'll be OK, but it is still risky to use a drum brake master cylinder on a disc brake car, because of the possibility of the reservoir running too low of fluid.
Depending on what level your restoration is, it may not matter to you if your master cylinder is original or an aftermarket.
I have a A-1 Cardone rebuild of a correct aftermarket disc one of these here I've been trying to get $20 for.
Kits for that one should still be available to, so you could buy a kit for probably $15 or $20, and rebuild yours.
That Raybestos number 36307 is correct for '71 up disc MC's, I know that because I used to work for the company that made them. $106 seems high, maybe shop around.  Have you checked RockAuto.com?
I don't think these master cylinders were painted black originally like they were in '70 and prior years, the NOS '71 up ones I've seen had a phosphate gray coating on them

Offline kmyles

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009 - 12:05:41 PM »
Found and exact duplicate at NAPA :clapping: :clapping: Now should I paint it? If so what color?
_________
Kevin



Mopar Lover....Cuda's....Challengers Rule!!!!
- 1951 Dodge - 2 door hardtop (Sold!!)
- 1971 Dodge Challenger
- 2012 Dodge Challenger Yellowjacket

Hard to believe what 20 years will do!!!!

Offline JH27N0B

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009 - 12:17:45 PM »
Excellent, congratulations!
Here is a picture of an NOS one, I'm not sure exactly what color you would use to paint these, they are sort of a flat gunmetal gray.

Offline kmyles

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009 - 12:26:03 PM »
Mine looks identical to that, so maybe no paint :dunno:
_________
Kevin



Mopar Lover....Cuda's....Challengers Rule!!!!
- 1951 Dodge - 2 door hardtop (Sold!!)
- 1971 Dodge Challenger
- 2012 Dodge Challenger Yellowjacket

Hard to believe what 20 years will do!!!!

Offline JH27N0B

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009 - 01:04:40 PM »
Not for a '71.  Its some sort of coating, not a paint.  Sort of like a gray phosphate coating like a parkerized military rifle.
In 70 and before the disc brake master cylinders were painted black.  the only one that was still painted black in '71 was the hemi disc brake master cylinder, which was a carry over from '70.

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009 - 01:10:34 AM »
I have just painted them cast grey so they look bare

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline dougs bs23

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009 - 01:22:41 PM »
To paint your MC,,, maybe consider POR15's metal mask, it will givee it that greyish bare metal look.  I dont know if it will hold up to dot3 or 4 fluid though.
just a thought  :2thumbs:
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Offline MEK-Dangerfield

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009 - 03:57:45 PM »
To paint your MC,,, maybe consider POR15's metal mask, it will givee it that greyish bare metal look.  I dont know if it will hold up to dot3 or 4 fluid though.
just a thought  :2thumbs:

Doug,

  I love POR-15. It will stay on your finger nails for weeks.   :lol:  I put it on my rusty master cylinder, and it looked great, but DOT-3 fluid will tarnish it.    :pullinghair:

Mike

1970 Challenger - SOLD
2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.

Offline kmyles

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Re: master cylinder need help
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009 - 11:24:34 PM »
To paint your MC,,, maybe consider POR15's metal mask, it will givee it that greyish bare metal look.  I dont know if it will hold up to dot3 or 4 fluid though.
just a thought  :2thumbs:

I think I'll give this a try :2thumbs: Thaks for your help!!
_________
Kevin



Mopar Lover....Cuda's....Challengers Rule!!!!
- 1951 Dodge - 2 door hardtop (Sold!!)
- 1971 Dodge Challenger
- 2012 Dodge Challenger Yellowjacket

Hard to believe what 20 years will do!!!!