Author Topic: Hammer and Dolly anyone?  (Read 2588 times)

Offline 340Challman

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Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« on: April 04, 2009 - 12:28:50 PM »
Who here likes and is good at hammer & dolly? Back in high school I started working in a body shop with this old guy that looked like he was 80 then. Of course being 15 made everybody over thirty look old, but this guy looked old. Al Sievers was his name. Al hated plastic body fillers. If you even mentioned fillers you were then treated to a pissed off irritated Al for the rest of the day. I used to think he was a big pain in the a$$. Al would sit on his stool with his two hammers, about ten different dollies and his torch and spend days hammering and shrinking hammering and shrinking. One of my other friends worked at a shop that was high volume insurance work and when we would talk he was doing so much more cool stuff than I was doing. Teaching him how to pull frames and replace quarters and I would go to work and think Man, this sucks! Al would have me doing the same thing except I was only beating on the old junk he had that were his projects. Day in and day out hammer and shrink. :swear: After two years I decided I'd had enough of this. So I got a job in a different shop and I was all excited. I was going to learn everything! Boy was I wrong. This guy was such a crook. He had me riveting on metal right over the damaged areas and hiding the rivets behind trim and underneath. After I'd been there for about 6 months, a guy brought in a 240Z and Ohren (german guy) gives the job to me. I thought wow this is going to be so cool working on this. It wasn't real bad, a light impact that only pushed the fender in a little bit. So I grab my hammers and dollies and I start going to town on this thing. All of a sudden I'm thinking "Hey this hammer and dolly thing isn't so bad". Ohren blew his top. He is screaming at me asking what kind of a fool do I think he is, on and on. I'm starting to get pretty pissed off because he is getting way out of line. Finally I lose it and tell him to F.O.

I moved on to another shop and thought I had hit the jackpot. We had five bays and we were doing some work. This was the first place I ever worked that had a real paint booth. Wow! But man this place was high volume ins. work. Bust em out as fast as you can. Quality was not top priority. If you had to change a quarter you mowed that thing off of there with air nibblers, flanged it, trimmed the new one, punched it and welded her on. A good helping of filler, the air file, a little DA and she was ready for prime and paint. About a year of that and I found myself missing ole crotchety Al.

I went to see if I could come back to work for him, but of course he had another kid working there and Al definitely didn't have the volume to justify me also. That was the end to my working in body shops. I still worked on mine and friends but never as a career.

Over the years I have grown to really love hammer & dolly work. It's almost therapeutic, and with anything you do for that long, I've gotten pretty darn good at it. Still have never replaced a quarter the correct way. :hyper:  but I can work metal with the best of em. My stud gun only comes out when I cannot get to the inside.

So was just wondering who else here has a sick passion for hammer & dolly? :cheers:
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Offline 73dce

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2009 - 01:01:56 PM »
I wish I was that good with a hammer and dolly.  I went to school to learn how to do body work and they didn't teach me squat.  I got on at a body shop in town and they just wanted things done and out of there.  Even the restorations, it made me sick.  Hack, hack, move it out.

Offline NoMope Greg

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009 - 02:22:05 PM »
I'd like to try to learn hammer and dolly, but I don't know anyone around me that does it to learn from.  Besides, it would last about five minutes before my wife would start complaining about the noise.  :banghead:
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Offline dutch

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2009 - 05:40:47 PM »
I'd like to try to learn hammer and dolly, but I don't know anyone around me that does it to learn from.  Besides, it would last about five minutes before my wife would start complaining about the noise.  :banghead:

try hammering at night..., when she`s asleep...   you should be fine then...   :bigsmile:
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Offline elitecustombody

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2009 - 09:58:42 PM »
I prefer working out metal than slapping filler,it's hard to find bodymen nowadays who will spend the time working out the damage,they either want to put a new part on or just cover the damage with bondo
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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2009 - 08:23:41 AM »
Great story/lesson.  Any good reference material that a would be metal shaper can get?

  Or you could give us a how to lesson here.  :worshippy
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline 340Challman

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2009 - 11:34:27 AM »
It's hard to find bodymen nowadays who will spend the time working out the damage,they either want to put a new part on or just cover the damage with bondo

I agree, however at the same time, now that I am running my own business I fully understand man hours per job costs and realize that most of the time it is not cost effective. If you wanted to run a body shop like this, it would have to be a resto/custom shop where volume does not dictate your feasibility. I am a small residential home builder and the same thing applies. I would love to do all kinds of custom trim work in my houses, but there is no additional return to justify the added man hours needed to perform such work. That aside, I love custom trim as much as hammer & dolly. :2thumbs:


Quote
Any good reference material that a would be metal shaper can get? Or you could give us a how to lesson here.

I don't know of any material other than say college level text books and they probably just touch on it as it is not regularly practiced in most shops today. I would be happy to give some pointers although it is a very visual thing. I'm trying to finish a 928 that is taking up all of my garage right now. when that is done and out of the garage I have another car that would be an excellent teaching prop. I can start a "how to" thread and post lots of pics. Maybe I can figure out how to put a few vids in as well. I hadn't thought of a "how to" but it sounds like a fun thing to do. :2thumbs:

 


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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2009 - 11:48:22 AM »
 :woohoo:   Yea, you could even upload video to photobucket when things really get complicated..   :thumbsup:
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline dutch

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2009 - 12:14:15 PM »
there are some nice vids about this on you tube as well.  I`ll try to post some links later on today  :2thumbs:
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Offline ShelbyDogg

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2009 - 12:39:24 PM »
I love the hammer and dolly but never watched someone do the shrinking with a torch.  I know about the dime sized cherry then the wet rag quench, but I'd like to see how some of you "pros" do it.   I'd also like to see how you pros use a shrinking hammer, since it seems like putting a dolly behind the metal and hitting with this hammer just causes a bunch of tiny dents.

Rob
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Offline dutch

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009 - 02:03:10 PM »
here`s a nice how to series   :2thumbs:












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Offline 340Challman

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2009 - 07:06:57 PM »
I love the hammer and dolly but never watched someone do the shrinking with a torch.  I know about the dime sized cherry then the wet rag quench, but I'd like to see how some of you "pros" do it.   I'd also like to see how you pros use a shrinking hammer, since it seems like putting a dolly behind the metal and hitting with this hammer just causes a bunch of tiny dents.

Rob

Agreed! I do not use a shrinking hammer and the old guy Al never did either. He called it the meat tenderizer. Every time you strike the metal with a dolly back up you actually spread the metal. It doesn't compress. It is a solid. You actually make the metal thinner in that spot. The metal has to go somewhere so it moves away from the strike point in all directions. The physics behind it is really interesting in my opinion.
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Offline darkhawk

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009 - 07:20:07 PM »
Those videos are amazing :thumbsup:
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Offline 340Challman

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009 - 07:36:26 PM »
here`s a nice how to series   :2thumbs:

That is a very nice series. I'm not a fan of the shrinking disk though. I have trouble evening the heat out over the area with them. Since I learned with a torch it is what I am most comfortable with. He makes a good point with the disk though. If you notice he has not got the metal very hot. You do not want to get the metal red hot. If you do you are going to warp it. The dime sized cherry is too much heat in too small of an area, unless you have an extremely stretched spot in a small area, And you are really getting borderline non-repairable if it needs that much shrinking in a small area like that.
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Offline 70RAGTOPR/T

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Re: Hammer and Dolly anyone?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2009 - 11:50:30 AM »
The series has been delete except for one video.  I really would have loved to see them.  I didn't have auto shop when I went to school in the 70's.  I would love to learn how to do my own bodywork.  I purchased a mig wielder, stud gun and dollies & hammers to do my own work.  Now I need to practice on some metal before I work on my car.  Can anyone give some tips.

Walt