Six Pack Rich At Idle

Author Topic: Six Pack Rich At Idle  (Read 1375 times)

Offline AMXguy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1035
Six Pack Rich At Idle
« on: April 08, 2009 - 09:41:02 AM »
It took me two years but all the bugs have been worked out of my new 440 six pack, it runs great and pulls hard with no smoke at last. the last thing that may or may not be an issue is it smells REAL rich at idle, no smoke or anything but the EPA would shoot me if I had to check it.

 I have it leaned out on the mixture on all 3 carbs, with the vac advance in my idle timing is about 25 BTC, I put a 5-6 power valve in, I do have a pretty lumpy cam and I know that adds to it but I'm not sure how much. it runs great and gets 14 mpg on the hwy so I think my mains are ok, if this is all normal I'm fine with it but if I need to do something I will.
1970 R/T SE Challenger
 1970 Superbee
 1969 S code Mach 1
 1967  GTO




Offline moper

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2368
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009 - 12:04:46 PM »
There could be a few reasons. I know you have Don's (FBO) timing curve. But IMO 25° is too much for it at idle... There is a point where the fast burning pump gas is lit so early that it does not burn completely. You can also have it too lean and have the thing smell rich too. Again, the mixture has to be right to completely burn. What does it pull for vacuum in gear at a hot idle? I'd bet the power valve needs to go down a couple numbers.. but you have to check to be sure.

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009 - 12:18:53 PM »
if you include vacuum 25 * at idle is probably OK , it seems to run well ,
 2 things to try here first stick your fingers over the idle bleed in the top of the center carb , if the idle immediatly improves you need to block them with solder or similar, I usually just press some solder into the blled , this way it can be removed & will not hurt the engine if it falls out  , generally with a lumpy cam this makes a Huge differnce , second check you manifold vacuum at idle in gear , you will probably need a lower rated power valve  Lumpy cams often run rich @ idle anyway as the longer duration misfires the cylinders cause raw fuel to be dumped out the exhaust
« Last Edit: April 08, 2009 - 01:04:57 PM by Chryco Psycho »

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline AMXguy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1035
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009 - 12:26:56 PM »
I'm pulling about 12 inches in neutral ( 4 spd ) , I've played with the timing, the more I give it the smoother it idles to a point, but then it's too much for driving of course.

 Idle bleed? I thought that was the lever with the pad  that comes up and opens the hole at idle? that's adustable but I don't notice much much difference with it open or closed. if there is someting else I guess I'm not sure what you're talking about.
1970 R/T SE Challenger
 1970 Superbee
 1969 S code Mach 1
 1967  GTO

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009 - 01:07:40 PM »
this is why I do not run the vacuum advance so you can get enough advance at idle & not overadvance it above the advance curve

the idle bleeds are small brass inserts inside the throat of the car under the choke plate , at the front of the throat there are 4 blleds there , the two outer ones are the idle circuit

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline AMXguy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1035
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009 - 07:34:32 PM »
I'll try that, you think solder is soft enough not to hurt anything? I guess so but that gives me the willys thinking about any metal going through the intake. 
1970 R/T SE Challenger
 1970 Superbee
 1969 S code Mach 1
 1967  GTO

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009 - 08:53:34 PM »
Solder will not hurt anything & I can`t find anything else that works except to buy carbs that have removable bleeds

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline moper

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2368
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2009 - 01:17:16 PM »
I recently learned a new trick for the air bleeds... Take a piece of larger gage multistrand wire apart... Strip off the insulation from about 4". Unwind the seperate wires, and cut them about 4" long. Use the single strands in the idle air bleeds, slipped down until they bottom, then bend them out and over the air horn so the air cleaner assembly holds them in place. Using this method, you can tweak the sizing until the mixture screws have an effect, and then it's easy to figure how much you need to change them by measuring the diameter of the wires and multiplying it out. Or, you could leave the wires in place...lol.

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Six Pack Rich At Idle
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2009 - 08:00:34 PM »
Wire works too , smaller stands can be pinched under the squirter

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t