Author Topic: 11" rear drums  (Read 3692 times)

Offline 300

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11" rear drums
« on: April 08, 2009 - 06:38:44 PM »
Hi. I,m changing my rear 10" drums to 11" i/d drums on my 70 cuda. Anybody know who sells the dust shields (backing plates) for the 11" Thanks




Offline Changin Gears

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009 - 07:07:46 PM »
If your 'cuda has front disc brakes you might want to consider getting an adjustable proportioning valve if you do this.  E-bodies are infamous for locking up the rear tires first causinfg the car to spin around. The big drums just make it worse.

I have always changed mine the other way - 11" to 10".


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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009 - 07:15:33 PM »
I see no gain in doing this , the rear brakes are restricted by the proportioning valve to limit how much work they do wether you have 10" or 11"

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Offline 300

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009 - 07:29:06 PM »
I  am installing the valve along 11" disc up front (converted from drum) thought i would do the AAR setup, Thoughts

Offline Changin Gears

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009 - 07:40:14 PM »
I see no gain in doing this , the rear brakes are restricted by the proportioning valve to limit how much work they do wether you have 10" or 11"

I agree, would keep the 10's


The goal never changes - Stop the 60' timer with your back tires

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2009 - 01:27:13 AM »
Larger brakes serve several purposes and add a few things...

The 11" diameter means the braking force is greater even if the shoes are the same size. This is because there is a greater moment arm acting on the axle. It may only be 1", but it means that your braking force gets multiplied by 5.5 instead of 5, which is a big difference. I haven't put the shoes side by side either, you may get more area as well, which also increases the braking force. For example, lets suppose the shoe area doesn't change and you have 100 pounds of braking force a the drum. This would give 500 inch/pounds for the 10" drum, and 550 in/lbs for the 11" drums. Now I just threw out a round number, but it doesn't matter, you'll see that any number used gives a 10% increase!!!

The proportioning valve controls the amount of fluid going to the rear brakes. If you increase the braking force, you will alter the balance. I noticed this immediately after I changed to 11 3/4" front rotors. Prior to the rotors my car ALWAYS locked the rears before the fronts, with the 11 3/4" fronts and 10" rears it's much better balanced. Also note that the 11 3/4" rotors still use the same size pads, the increased braking force comes solely from the larger rotor. The same thing applies for the drums. For the same amount of pedal effort, the same amount of fluid pushed, you will have a larger braking force in the rear.

While it won't matter much on the street, you are also spreading the heat of braking over a larger area and a larger mass as well. This means that your brakes will heat up slower than with the smaller drums. The larger brakes also have a bigger outer surface area, which is the key factor in heat exchange. I'd have to crunch the numbers to find out if the larger brakes would actually cool faster though, because while they will exchange heat faster they also have more mass to retain heat. So even though they exchange heat faster, there's more heat to exchange, so it may be a wash on the cooling rate. My 11" drums (not yet installed) are finned too (I don't believe all of them are, I may be wrong), adding even more surface area for heat exchange. This stuff is more relevant to road racers though...

So, 11" brakes will stop your car better. You get more bang out of upgrading the front because of the weight shift, the fronts do more work (braking is usually split between 70/30 and 80/20, front to rear). So upgrading the rear brakes is only improving 20-30% of your stopping power. You will need to do something different for a proportioning valve though, especially if you're running the stock size rotors up front, because you will have too much rear bias with the larger rears.

OH! And to answer your question, I haven't seen 11" backing plates at any retailers, although you can usually find a couple sets on eBay at any given time. They usually run in the neighborhood of $100, although I've seen them lower.

This may be a set for $40
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR-8-3-4-REAR-BACKING-PLATES-11-3-DANA-60_W0QQitemZ170311071718QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item170311071718&_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116#ht_670wt_1448

here's a set of 11x2.5, $166!! :eek7:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-NOS-B-E-body-11-Drum-Brake-Backing-Suppt-Plates_W0QQitemZ220389356433QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item220389356433&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318#ht_1055wt_1448

and here's one advertised as 11x2", note the smaller width...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mopar-Rear-Brake-Backing-plates-8-75-Dodge-8-3-4-11_W0QQitemZ200177336431QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item200177336431#ht_500wt_1463

I'm not an expert at this stuff, I bought a complete set-up for 11x2.5" brakes (drums, plates and adjusters) from a fellow mopar guy. I'm not sure if the backing plates are different for the 11x2 and 11x2.5" brakes, although I wouldn't be surprised if they were different...

« Last Edit: April 09, 2009 - 01:47:41 AM by 72bluNblu »

Offline 300

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2009 - 05:35:13 AM »
Thanks for all the input, Looks like i should stay with the 10"

Offline Katfish

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2009 - 08:12:43 AM »
I agree it won't help, but I have 11" on mine because it looks better with the larger 18" rims.

And yes the backing plates are different for different widths.

Offline 300

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2009 - 12:52:07 PM »
I,m cloning a AAR won,t be #s matching but it sounds like a lot of you say 10" and i guess  i won,t have to hunt for 11" plates. I talked to a fellow that i just met the other day. He,s doing a #s AAR and this is where i got the idea for the 11" More thoughts ? Like i don,t want the ass end giving me greef. Thanks again

Offline 72bluNblu

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009 - 01:38:03 PM »
If you want to improve the braking, 11 3/4" rotors in the front is the way to go. You'll need later model spindles though, '73 and up. Then you can buy a set of 11 3/4" rotors for a '77 Chrysler Cordoba and a set of 11 3/4" caliper brackets (on eBay for around $100), install new wheel bearings (for the later spindles) and you're off the races. As you can see in my sig pic they fill the wheel much better than the ~11" brakes stock for these cars.

Check out these threads for more info on the front brakes...
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=56565.0
this one starts out on drop spindles but has a lot of brake info too
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=54823.0

and here's an article that covers the whole conversion...
http://www.moparaction.com/Tech/archive/disc-main.html

If you upgrade the fronts and still want to upgrade the rears your balance will go back to being pretty much stock, you could also get a stock proportioning valve off of a '77 Cordoba (they had the larger front and rear brakes), although I don't know how much different the front to rear weight balance is on a Cordoba so that may not work better, I'll likely just go with an adjustable as I'm not worried about looking stock. The rears WILL help you stop better, but they're the smaller part of the equation compared to the fronts.


Offline Katfish

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2009 - 12:21:17 PM »
You can also put a smaller diameter wheel cylinder on the rears.  The stock 10" drums have 15/16" bores.  I'm changing my 11" drums to 7/8" bore to reduce the rear bias.

I know it's just a visual thing, but I would put the 11" drums on it.  You'll wish you had, if you don't.  Little things like this eat at me later.

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2009 - 06:54:07 PM »
Just some observations...

1- Didn't AAR's come with disc brakes? I think so.
2- Even show cars are given leeway when it comes to safety equipment upgrades.
3- Disk brakes are much better so why invest in swapping  drums, invest in disks.
4- It's just a clone... no offense intended.
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Offline 300

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2009 - 07:17:34 PM »
Thanks, I,m just going by a reso book i have and talking to a few. I understand that AAR,s had disc up front and 11" drums on back, It,s just a clone yes, but i thought i might do the same. I guess it doesn,t matter the 10 and 11 are about 50/50 on the reply,s Thanks

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2009 - 07:25:02 PM »
I think half of us thought you were putting 11" drums on the front to.  :thumbsup:
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline 300

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Re: 11" rear drums
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2009 - 07:39:36 PM »
I guess my wording one might think that, but i have 11" disc up front, and right now 10 " drums on rear, sorry for the confusion. Now What ? should i do ,  By the way I,m coming down your way in a couple of weeks  Nascar
« Last Edit: April 10, 2009 - 08:13:47 PM by 300 »