lifters

[71chmark]

I have the 1.7 adjustable roller rockers on my 440.  Hydraulic purple cam.  I have stock hydraulic lifters I bought from Mancinis.  My question is should I be using some different type of lifters?

[nivvy]

Sharp car mark..... If your running a hydraulic cam and yes your hydraulic lifters are fine... mancini is selling crane anti pump type lifters now to quiet down the chatter.. I think that was your concern before...

Is there still chatter in there??

BTW my new pushrods for my indy heads have about  1 thread showing out the bottom and there is little to no noise in the valve train either with my 1.7's...

One thing that comes to mind if your worried about the chattering still is maybe the lifter bores need corrected... how old are the current lifters

check the actual lifter diameter and the inside diameter of the lifter bore.... I think the allowable tolerance is about .005 to .010 range but im sure CP will chime in soon to verify this.... 

lifter bore corrections are exspensive to get done though when the engine is not together! $400-600 here.. maybe the $90 cranes would help if the lifters are really old? If you do decide to get some newer lifters still check the diameters....

[71chmark]

Not really worried about the bores or chattering.  I just have that knock until it warms up a little.  Was wondering if it could be something to do with the lifters which are new.  What does anti-pump do for you?  When I took my old lifters out, which were not even worn, I couldn't even compress them at all with my fingers.  Thought maybe it was because the motor sat for years.  They look the same as the new ones.  It had the stock valve train.  My freind put in what he called the mopar purple grind cam about 15 years ago before I bought the motor from him.  He had bought it as a fresh rebuild.  Doesn't have that many miles on it.  Could it possibly be a solid lifter cam?

[Chryco Psycho]

you may find with the extra spring load & using 1.7 rockers that the lifters will collapse , not sure what cam you have in there but I would have used a solid grind cam

[71chmark]

The only thing I know about cams is they open and close the valves at different lifts and durations.  Guess I have some research to do.  Not even sure what the difference between solid, roller and hydraulic is.  I'm pretty sure I can't go much higher than .484 lift due the 1.7's and no recess in the pistons.  Any suggestions for me?

[nivvy]

Solid is there is no pump up in the lifter like a hydraulic and a roller the lifter has rollers in it and a roller cam has wider lobes also roller cams need higher spring pressures to keep from "bouncing" .....

Didnt you get the heads of ebay... did he say what springs / pressures and installed heights on the heads were??? do you have a stethescope to tell where the noise is coming from on startup  they sell them at autozone/advanced cheap...

[moper]

depending on the installed height of the pistons, the 484 cam with 1.7s will hit the piston. was the piston to valve clearance checked yet? I also agree, 1.7s are not a great way to go with any hydraulic grind. There's not really much reason to use them either. I would just run 1.5s.

[71chmark]

I checked the piston to valve clearance with a piece of clay and it was OK.  I'm positive the noise is the pushrods hitting the insides of the head where it goes through.  I'm just searching for why it goes away after warmup.  Attached is the heads document.

[nivvy]

Mark get a stethescope from a autoparts store and find out exactly where the noise is coming from.... 

I had a tapping once all of a sudden and couldnt find it in the engine..... It was one of the converter bolts had backed off some and was banging in there 

[71chmark]

What would be the effect if I had a solid grind cam and I put hydraulic lifters on in place of the solid ones?  The lifters look exactly the same only I can't depress any of the old ones.

[nivvy]

What would be the effect if I had a solid grind cam and I put hydraulic lifters on in place of the solid ones?  The lifters look exactly the same only I can't depress any of the old ones.

Mark I dont have a answer to that...... Solid body lifter well is solid.... you wont be able to "compress" them.....

Are you saying some of the lifters ""compress" and some dont???

CP thoughts but that cant be good..

Get all new lifters for starters..... 

[71chmark]

I did get all new lifters.  Hydraulic.  The old ones I took out were like new.  None of them compress.  The rockers I took off were stock non adjustable but they all had play.  I know the guy I bought the motor from changed the cam but I don't know about the lifters or rockers.  I think maybe I should replace the cam so I know what I have.  With the rockers and heads I have (see previous posts), what would you suggest?  I'm just trying to make a good street car. Torquer intake, 750DP, standard bore.

[ntstlgl1970]

Aren't the solid lifter pushrods longer than the hydraulic ones? I think it would have been obvious if you had a mismatch. The fact that the noise goes away as the engine warms up seems odd for valvetrain. Can you identify the noise's speed in relation to the engine speed? Cam related stuff should be about 1/2 or 1/4 engine rpm since the cam runs at 1/2 engine rpm.

Getting a stethescope is a good suggestion, or if you are short on cash, a wooden handled screwdriver works too.


It could be piston slap (piston skirt to bore clearance). I know my engine has some piston slap noise when it's cold that goes away as the engine warms up.

[71chmark]

I had the valve covers off while the motor was running and was able to vary and or eliminate the noise by applying pressure on the rockers and making rocker adjustments.  We thought we had eliminated the problem but it was just what happens when the motor warms up.  I don't see why the pushrod length would be different between solid and hydraulic.  The length requirement should be a function of the cam lift and the rocker geometry.  So here are my variables:  Cam - unknown (was told purple hemi-grind cam installed 15 years ago so I assumed .284/.484), Lifters - was solid (none compress, no wear showing) now have hydraulic,  Rockers - were the stock non-adjustable (all appeared to have lash, since they were sloppy with both valves closed, which I assumed was due to wear/age) now have 1.7 roller rockers.  I think I should get a new cam since I don't know what I have.  I would like to keep the 1.7 rockers so I don't have to spend more to replace (although I would replace them if I deemed necessary).  I attached a word document of my heads in a previous post in this thread and also my other components.  I have 3.23 gears with a 4 speed.  Could someone give me some suggestions on cam solid/hydraulic and lift/duration.  I just want to minimize my effort (lazy) and cost while optimizing my setup for street.  I'm not too worried about the noise because, although I don't yet understand why it changes, I'm certain of where it's from.  Thanks to anyone who actually read through all this.

[nivvy]

I had the valve covers off while the motor was running and was able to vary and or eliminate the noise by applying pressure on the rockers and making rocker adjustments. 

so you fixed it? The specs you provided on your heads dont show installed spring heights... try starting over again setting your lash/preload.... sometimes it easy to look at lets say #2 piston to set things up and do the #1 by accident..  also with the VC's off run a straight edge across the top of the retainers and see if they are all level..