lifters

[71chmark]

Didn't fix the problem.  My statement was misleading.  We were able to affect the noise by applying pressure to the rockers by hand while running so we decided to make adjustments.  While we were starting and stopping the motor to make these adjustment the noise went a way.  I thought is was the adjustments but is was just what happens after warm up and it came back after cooling off.  The info on the heads document says good to .600 lift but I'm limited by the head milling, 1.7 rockers and no notch in the pistons.  Resetting everything is the first thing I plan on doing.  I just find it strange that none of the original lifters I took out will compress.  From what I have read you can't tell the difference from the outside.  The difference is all internal.  My friend changed the cam from when he got it but doesn't remember anything else. 15 years have gone by.  I'm thinking there may be a mismatch.  When I originally set the rockers with a lash (hydraulic lifters) there was no knock but just the minor clacking noise.

[heminut]

The solids I have here don't have the wire retainer clips in the top like the hydraulic lifters do to retain the guts. If your lifters have the clips I would bet they are hydraulic. If they are full of oil you won't be able to compress them by hand.

[71chally416]

I'd just bolt the stock rockers and pushrods on and not worry about it. If you're lucky you might get another 5-10hp at most from 1.7 rockers if the cam is compatible with them, but it might not even work at all with that hydraulic cam and just run worse and beat up the lifters. All those MP cams were designed for 1.5 rocker gear. You can get away with that with a solid or roller, but probably not a hydraulic.  You also have like .548" lift with that ratio if you have the .484 hydraulic and I'd guess you have inadequate piston to valve clearance without valve notches unless your pistons are way down in the holes. 

[Chryco Psycho]

Mopar solids do have a retainer as they are hollow to lighten the weight of the lifters

[71chmark]

The ones I can't compress do have the retainer.  Seems odd that none of the 16 will compress and they still should bleed down after awhile shouldn't they?  I though they were designed to compress some to provide lash.  My pistons are down in the holes aways.  I have adequate P-V clearance.

[Topcat]

Mopar solids do have a retainer as they are hollow to lighten the weight of the lifters

Speaking about solid lifters, I bought some made by Howard cams that are called EDM solid lifters. They have a very small hole on the face that contacts the cam lobe. I never did find out why they don't have that feature for Hydraulic cam lifters.

Another thing I've been hearing is that there is only 2 companies in the U.S. that make lifters. I haven't been able to confirm these to be true but I lean towards this could be true. Johnson lifters is one of them I understand. They sell theirs to Howard cams. Then they put the EDM hole on them.

[heminut]

The ones I can't compress do have the retainer.  Seems odd that none of the 16 will compress and they still should bleed down after awhile shouldn't they?  I though they were designed to compress some to provide lash.  My pistons are down in the holes aways.  I have adequate P-V clearance.

Yes, they will bleed down if they sit with 100 lbs of spring pressure on them for a while. If they are just sitting upright on the bench with no pressure on them the oil inside isn't going to go anywhere. The easiest way to get an answer to your question would be to take the retainer clip out of one of the lifters and remove the guts. If there's a spring inside it's a hydraulic lifter. Problem solved!

[71chmark]

Why didn't I think of that?  Stay tuned.  I'm at work now.

[71chally416]

Well if you do have solid lifters and were running them without the proper lash you now have a wiped out cam. 

[ntstlgl1970]

I'd just bolt the stock rockers and pushrods on and not worry about it. If you're lucky you might get another 5-10hp at most from 1.7 rockers if the cam is compatible with them, but it might not even work at all with that hydraulic cam and just run worse and beat up the lifters. All those MP cams were designed for 1.5 rocker gear. You can get away with that with a solid or roller, but probably not a hydraulic.  You also have like .548" lift with that ratio if you have the .484 hydraulic and I'd guess you have inadequate piston to valve clearance without valve notches unless your pistons are way down in the holes. 

Might be worthwhile to swap the stock rockers back on and see if the noise goes away or changes.

Also just FYI the pushrods for solid lifters are .125" or so longer than the ones for hydraulics (the pushrod seat is further down in the body on a solid lifter). So if you did have solid lifters with the correct pushrods and you went to hydraulic lifters, you would have to back the adjustment way off (maybe 2-3 turns) to get it set right, and that might put the pushrod "cup" into the fulcrum of the rocker arm (especially on a 1.7 ratio arm) when the valve opens. Make sure you have the recommended 1 thread or so showing on the bottom of the rockers when the valves are adjusted correctly.

These are crane part numbers:
64673-16 Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth V-8 58-78, 413 thru 440 "B" High Block, with hydraulic lifters and adjustable rockers (9.125" long)
 
64684-16 Chrysler-Dodge-Plymouth V-8 58-78, 413 thru 440 "B" High Block, with mechanical lifters and adjustable rockers (9.250" long)

[71chmark]

Took one apart.  Hydraulic.

[71chally416]

I'm thinking your cam just can't cope with the 1.7 rockers and it's beating the lifters up. Put the stock rocker gear on and I'll bet your problem will go away. 

[moparniac]

I think he should start all over and try resetting the valves/lash first..... 

[71chmark]

Set the valves to zero lash and still had the knocking.  Put the stock valve train back on and and the knocking is gone.  I did have a tapping sound in the motor, for about 20 seconds, when I shut it off though.  I think it was a lifter bleeding down.  I'll just keep the stock train in until I can clearance the heads or maybe try some 1.5 rollers which would push the rods out a little but I'll still probably need to clearance the heads.  Thanks for all the responses.  Appreciated.

[71chally416]

Don't worry about a little ticking when you first start it up as long as it goes away after it runs a while. It'll be worse if you use synthetic. That stuff is like water when it gets hot. I tried it in my 3.0 Mitsu Daytona motor and it sounded like a sewing machine until I put regular oil back in.