Author Topic: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor  (Read 30779 times)

Offline priderocks

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 494
Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« on: April 18, 2009 - 10:23:21 PM »
I could just carry an extra, but I would like to eliminate it altogether. What are my options?




Offline bordin34

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 669
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009 - 10:37:08 PM »
You could buy an MSD type ignition, or just bypass it and replace the coil every ten miles.

1973 Charger SE Brougham Black 400 auto
1974 Charger SE Brougham Blue 318 auto-SOLD

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2009 - 01:23:34 AM »
coils are made to work on 6-8 v , the MSD ,Crane Hi6 or Mallory will eliminate the ballast , in virtually any other situation you have to reduce the voltage with something , I carry 2 ballasts

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline bb71challenger

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009 - 04:49:22 AM »
Why do you want to get rid of it?
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline priderocks

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 494
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009 - 11:59:17 AM »
The only thing making me uncomfortable about taking my car on a long trip is the (to me) problematic electrical stuff. Part of it is just getting more familiar with it, but it seems to me mopar ecu's, ballast resistors, alternators and voltage regulators are always shelling out. Any of these components that could be replaced with more reliable pieces would be ok with me.

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5392
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009 - 12:19:31 PM »
The only thing making me uncomfortable about taking my car on a long trip is the (to me) problematic electrical stuff. Part of it is just getting more familiar with it, but it seems to me mopar ecu's, ballast resistors, alternators and voltage regulators are always shelling out. Any of these components that could be replaced with more reliable pieces would be ok with me.


I daily drove my car for 2 years and managed to work a TON of bugs out of it while doing so. I've done away with the Mopar ECU and Ballast problems with installing a MSD 6A box. The factory alternator was replaced with a $15 junkyard Denso 90a alternator. Which is a better style, smaller, and more amperage alternator. My factory starter was replaced with the smaller "mini" starter. Which draws less current and spins faster than the factory one. I upgraded to H4 headlights, along with relays to take the load out of the factory headlight switch, hi/lo switch, and firewall connections. And finally, my amp gauge was bypassed in favor of a volt gauge, to take the problematic ammeter out as well as common failing bulkhead connections.

Only electrical problem I've had in the past, ohh about 2 1/2 years was a faulty circuit breaker for my alternator output. Which would trip for no reason. It was bypassed for the ride home and replaced. Didn't leave me stranded or anything.

I have a how-to on how i did the headlights and alternator swaps. With how little of my wiring is still "factory", I will be buying an aftermarket harness and redoing every connection and wire myself later on

http://www.goodysgotacuda.com/HowTo.html
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

Offline priderocks

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 494
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009 - 12:39:48 PM »
Goody, what distributor are you using with the MSD6A? Thanks for the post on the wiring. I will definitely go the relay route. I too have bypassed my factory alternator in favor of the voltmeter. Thanks for the tips.

Mike H

Offline 73Chally

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2381
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009 - 03:02:57 PM »
I'm the opposite of Goody.  I've had nothing but bad luck with anything MSD, as well as several other people I know.  We're going on 12 years with the stock Mopar inginition with zero problems.

Offline MEK-Dangerfield

  • C-C.com Expert
  • ********
  • Posts: 20946
  • I don't get NO respect! Member since 1/25/2002
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2009 - 03:07:48 PM »
To be sure, ballast resistors fail. The constant cold, then hot will cause something to crack eventually, but this is on cars used as everyday drivers. Just using your car on nice sunny days, your resistor will last for years.

Mike

1970 Challenger - SOLD
2016 SXT+.  1 of 524 SXT+'s in Plumb-crazy for 2016.

Offline bb71challenger

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6549
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2009 - 04:55:49 PM »
Maybe its the climate I live in but I have never had a resistor fail. I like Goodys approach though. I have a 6AL ready for my car, already run a mini starter, and at the minimum will run the 110 amp alt of the type that came on my 1975 Chrysler. I will probably get a newer, higher amp alternator to feed my system though. I have faith in the old technology but have no problem with updating either.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
*Brett*

Offline GoodysGotaCuda

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 5392
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2009 - 08:06:14 PM »
I'm the opposite of Goody.  I've had nothing but bad luck with anything MSD, as well as several other people I know.  We're going on 12 years with the stock Mopar inginition with zero problems.

I think a little luck has to play in electronics. I know some whom have gone through dozens of Mopar ECUs on their car, some have had one running for YEARS. Same with MSDs. I bought mine used for $50 offline, I mounted it on the inside of the car, where it is cool and has less vibration to it. Haven't had a problem. Same with my MSD wires and Blaster II coil.
Build Page: Goody's 'Cuda Build Page
1976 Dodge Warlock
1972 Barracuda - 5.7 Hemi + T56 Magnum

Wheel & Tire Specs:Link

Offline Chryco Psycho

  • Administrator
  • C-C.com Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 36620
  • 70 Challenger R/T SE 70 tube Chassis Cuda now sold
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2009 - 09:34:12 PM »
I'm the opposite of Goody.  I've had nothing but bad luck with anything MSD, as well as several other people I know.  We're going on 12 years with the stock Mopar inginition with zero problems.

 Me too , I have seen too many MSD units pack it in

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline tommyg29

  • Resident
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2009 - 11:21:55 AM »
I see this topic is older but on point for me.

I have the msd 6al upgrade also, and still have the ballast resistor. In fact it stranded me last month when one of the two wires disconnected somehow.
How do I go about disconnecting the ballast if its not necessary? Just connect the two wires together?
It would be one less thing to worry about, and one less set of wires cluttering the engine compartment.

Thanks.
72 Roadrunner 400-4 Auto-3.23 Gear-Black Cruiser
71 Cuda 440-6 Tribute-Limelight-A833 Close Ratio-4 Sp-Pistol Grip-Dana 3.54 Powr Lok-Rally Dash-Shaker (Sold)
92 Dodge Stealth RT-Twin 15g Turbos-SAFC2 Tuned-Mystic Blue-5 Sp-AWD-Rear Wheel Steering-AutoX'r (Sold)
12 Dodge Charger SXT Plus Blacktop Package-3.6L-8 Sp-Leather-Nav (the wife's)

Multiple SRT's, Rams, Dakotas, Caravans and Neons

...the lines on the road just look like dots!....

Offline UKcuda

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 546
  • Tell them I'm on my way
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2009 - 05:55:33 PM »
OK so I don't want to sound like a smart-arse but it amazes me how often people ask these same questions without anyone ever really talking about how it all works and why.

The basic theory is pretty simple and once you understand it a lot of other questions go away - so I am going to be brave and try to set out the basic stuff:

The number one thing to understand is Ohms law.  Don't go all glazed eyes because it is simple honest so stay with me.  It's this easy ------   Current = Voltage / Resistance.

OK so our cars have a 12V battery - so that's the start point for the voltage.

Now, things like coils and ignition modules (and points) can either handle 12V or not.  But the thing to understand is that it is not the voltage that is the problem; you can put 12V across your face and you will hardly notice.  The problem is the current the voltage produces.  It doesn't produce much across your face because your face has a very high resistance to the flow of electricity (at least mine does and if yours doesn't then you should be on a medical forum and not here).

In simple terms, the current (measured in amps) is how hard the electrons are bashing through the component and the harder they go the hotter it gets.  An arc or MIG welder makes a lot of heat because it makes very high current.

So, in an ignition system we have components which can only handle so much current or they get too hot.  Points can handle less than an electronic module, but not much less (depending on the module).

Typically points will be OK long term carrying 4-5 amps of current, and some electronic modules don't like much more than that either.  So in those cases the resistance in the circuit needs to be about 3 ohms (because 4= 12/3).  If you don't get that then go back and read again.

The Mopar electronic modules, especially the OEM ones, appear to be able to handle quite a high current (maybe 8 amps or more).  Imagine a 100 Watt bulb flashing on and off 250 times a second, it's quite a bit of heat.

Most stock style coils have an impedence (that's another name for resistance when you are talking about something like a coil) of 1.3 to 1.7 ohms.  At a full 12V those coils would be running something like 7 to 9 amps of current and things will get too hot after a while.  Even a tough stock Mopar module will be feeling the strain.

Enter the ballast resistor.  On stock systems the ballast resistor is the same or about two thirds of the resistance (impedence) of the coil.  That makes the ballast take a lot of the heat (literally) off the coil.  As a result the coil only has 6-8 V across it and the current through it is lower (so it doesn't burn up).

As an example - if you have a 1.5 ohm coil and a 1.5 ohm ballast they will split the voltage equally between them and both take 4 amps current (since the combined resistance is 3 ohms).  If you have a 1.8 ohm coil and a 1.2 ohm ballast the current will be the same (because the total resistance is the same) but the coil will have 7.2 volts across it (remember - current = voltage / resistance).

Why does it matter?  It matters because the coil works like a transformer to multiply the original voltage into a much higher voltage at the plug.  We need that very high voltage or the spark will not jump across the very high resistance in the air gap between the plug electrodes.

Because the coil works like an amplifier, if the original (primary) voltage supplied to the coil is lower, then the secondary voltage to the plug is also reduced.  So, on a stock system where the coil could theoretically put out 30KV if given 12V primary it may only be delivering 18KV with the ballast resistor in circuit (because part of the 12V is being dropped across the ballast and not the coil).  This is OK because the plugs will still fire at 18KV (if they are not gapped too big) and it allows an additional bonus feature:

Bonus feature - when the engine is cranking the starter is doing a huge amount of work and that robs a lot of power from the battery which means the battery can not maintain the same current/voltage relationship with the coil.  This would result in a much weaker spark just when you need it most (on a cold morning).  So, the stock system jumps the ballast which puts the coil under a direct 12V supply and delivers a better spark.  As this only happens for a short period there are no concerns over exactly how much heat is being developed.

So why change anything?

Ballast resistors do give up eventually so if we can get rid of them that is one less component to worry about, however, the main reason people try to get rid of the ballast is to deliver a full 12V to the coil and therefore create a better spark.

If you have been following the foregoing you will now see why so many people change the system and then complain that the coil etc. got fried.  For racing it is often OK to run a full 12V to the coil because the engine is not running long enough to build up the heat needed to cook anything.  On a street vehicle this is not the case.

How to do without the ballast:

There are basically two ways to get rid of the ballast safely.

The first and most popular way is to fit an aftermarket (or fabbed) ignition system which cuts off the current to the coil once the primary winding is saturated (in other words it doesn't keep hitting on the coil after it is charged).  The MSD, HEI and Pertronix II systems (and others) work like that.

This is the best option because it allows us to use a very low impedence coil at a full 12V.  The full 12V gives the coil the maximum voltage to multiply and the low impedence means it gets there much quicker per cycle (so it maintains good spark better at high revs when the cycle is shorter).

The second way is to use a coil with a high internal resistance.  As an aftermarket component I only know of the pertronix flamethrower 3 ohm coil.  It is rated at 40KV secondary voltage.  If you fit this without a ballast resistor you will still have 3 ohms in the circuit so nothing is going to get too much current whatever else is going on.  Also, in theory, you should still get enough spark to fire OK when cold even though the battery will not be delivering 100% (although perhaps not if you open up the plug gaps too much).  The downside is that the impedence will limit the systems capability to charge the coil fully when the engine is revving really hard.  On a street car this should not be much of an issue.

Therefore - if all you aim to do is to lose the ballast resitor, you can keep the stock Mopar E I module, jump the ballast, and fit a 3 ohm 40KV coil, and leave your plug gaps as they are.  You will probably not get better performance (maybe a bit).

Can we now have less questions about coils and ballast resistors ?

OK, probably not.


« Last Edit: August 18, 2009 - 06:46:23 PM by UKcuda »
'72 'cuda

Offline dodj

  • Sr. Resident
  • ******
  • Posts: 6197
Re: Can I eliminate my ballast resistor
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2009 - 06:35:36 PM »
I have a mopar chrome box and mopar distributor and ballast resistor. My car is not a daily driver but I change the ballast resistor every three years and have had no problems. I still carry a spare. Everything has a weak link. For Mopar ignitions it's the ballast resistor.
Scott
1973 Challenger  440 4 spd 
2007.5 3500 6.7 Cummins Diesel, Anarchy tuned.
Good friends don't let friends do stupid things. ........alone.