Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!

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Offline t1971Chally

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2009 - 07:20:36 PM »
Man, how some of you easily forget what really happened.
 
"In the mid-1990s, Chrysler Corporation was the most profitable automotive producer in the
world. Buoyed by record light truck, van, and large sedan sales, revenues were at an all-time
high. Chrysler had taken a risk in producing vehicles that captured the bold and pioneering
American spirit when imports dominated the market – the Dodge Ram, the Jeep Grand
Cherokee and the LH Sedan Series. In these vehicles Chrysler found an instant mass appeal,
and its U.S. market share climbed to 23% in 1997. As revenues and market share rose,
product development costs shrank to 2.8% of revenues - compared with 6% at Ford and 8%
at General Motors1. Chrysler's integrated design teams and noncompetitive relationships
with suppliers kept costs down, while its marketing department scored success after success
in gauging consumer tastes."

Then the unthinkable happened......we were sold out by one of the biggest A-holes to ever walk the face of the earth....Bob Eaton.

"With $7.5 billion in cash on hand and a full range of best-selling products, Chrysler finally seemed ready in 1997
to weather the volatile American automotive business cycle on its own – without government bailouts or large-scale R&D cutbacks."

Look out, here comes Bob Eaton and the Germans.....A so called "Merger of Equals" later was re-defined as a takeover.

"On May 7th, 1998, Eaton announced that Chrysler would merge with Daimler-Benz. Thanks
to a $37 billion stock-swap deal, the largest trans-Atlantic merger ever, Chrysler would not
"do it alone" any longer10. Daimler-Benz CEO Jürgen Schrempp hailed the union as "a
merger of equals, a merger of growth, and a merger of unprecedented strength"11. The new
company, with 442,000 employees and a market capitalization approaching $100 billion,
would take advantage of synergy savings in retail sales, purchasing, distribution, product
design, and research and development. When he rang the bell at the New York Stock
Exchange to inaugurate trading of the new stock, DCX, Eaton predicted, "Within five years,
we'll be among the Big Three automotive companies in the world"12.
Three years later DaimlerChrysler's market capitalization stands at $44 billion, roughly equal
to the value of Daimler-Benz before the merger13. Its stock has been banished from the S&P
500, and Chrysler Group's share value has declined by one-third relative to pre-merger
values."


Remember this, prior to the takeover, Chrysler had vehicles such as the 300m, Concorde, Intrepid, all of which were capable of 28 to 32 mpg.  It was the Germans who came in and said:
Front wheel drive technology is outdated, rear wheel drive cars is where you need to be.  We (The Germans) have been driving RWD cars for years and have perfected the technology.  Therefore, we are going to abandon the FWD Technology that is outdated for rear wheel drive vehicles. 
How do I know? I was there when the prick (CEO of Daimler) said it.  Think about it, we eliminated the very products that had made us so successful through the mid 90's.  It was the Germans who put us on the course of gas guzzling vehicles that we are now stuck with.  By the way,,,,,some of you who want to criticize us for gas guzzling vehicles better remember that you would not have those WONDERFUL GAS GUZZLELING CHALLENGERS today if we had not made the switch to RWD cars.  It was the Germans who took the roughly 9 to 11 billion dollars that Chrysler had in cash reserves and left us broke.  This is one of the main reasons Chrysler is in need of financial assistance today.

I also want to defend the attack made on here that "we need to make quality vehicles like Honda and Toyota does."  Guys and Gals, I can tell you with confidence and DATA that Chrysler does make vehicles as good as if not better than Toyota and Honda.  Cooda, If you haven't checked out the new mini-van I urge you to do so.  It is a winner and can compete with the Toyota and Honda any day of the week.  Hell, I will even get you a discount if you are willing to buy one


As a bonus and just to clear the air - Toyota is experiencing trouble as well.  Here are a few clips from articles over the past 3 or 4 months.
"Toyota, which vies with GM for the crown of the world's largest automaker, said it faced an "unprecedented crisis" and expected an operating loss of 150 billion yen (1.69 billion dollars) -- its first since March 1941.  It follows the financial troubles plaguing the United States where General Motors and Chrysler, two of the US Big Three automakers, are on the verge of collapse"

"Toyota said it was cutting back on production and investment as a slump in sales and a soaring yen wreaked havoc on its balance sheet, including freezing the launch of a new factory in Mississippi and slashing production in India.  But demand has fallen sharply in the United States as the credit crisis at banks drags down the whole economy, and analysts said Toyota's revision showed all automakers are affected, not just Detroit's Big Three which also includes Ford"

Some of your bashing of Chrysler may be deserved.....however, the majority of the current line up of vehicles and economic conditions are a direct result of the  merger and piss poor decisions made by the Germans

Ted
1971 Dodge Challenger 440 Magnum
:cheers:




Offline 70burntorangeT/A

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2009 - 11:22:29 PM »
t1971Chally,  :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:  Although I'm not sorry Chrysler went back to Rearwheel Drive.  Been waiting 30 years for that.


Now I'm going to throw out my "Opinion" on all this after just sitting back and reading all this rubbish most have posted for the last week or two.

Let's go back in history a little farther than anyone else has mentioned so far.  Let's talk about WWII and how we were able to win that war.  What companies did the US depend upon for manufacturing Heavy Trucks, Power Wagons, Tanks, Aircraft engines, etc. during the war?  CHRYSLER, that's who.  How about artillery shells and ammunition?  Anything you can think of that was needed during the war by our GI's was produced right here in the US by our BIG THREE U.S. AUTO MAKERS, GM, Ford, and Chrysler. 

All you people want to do is bash the BIG 3, but you owe them immensely for that very right of your freedom of speech.  Yeah, they have made mistakes, but do you think that for one minute, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, or any other rice-burning car company is going to help the US when another major war breaks out and we NEED the manufacturing base to SAVE AMERICA?  H*** NO, they won't.  We are about to let one, maybe two, of our major  :wavingflag: AMERICAN  :wavingflag: auto manufacturers go out of business forever, and all you think about is your own self interests, Oh, if I buy Japanese I'll save a couple dollars.  Oh, the TV ads say the Japanese cars are better, so they must be. 

Well I could go on and on, and I'm sure my opponents on this issue could as well.  All I'm saying is it will be a HUGE mistake for :wavingflag: to let any of our AMERICAN manufacturers go out of business.

Buying a rice burner is cutting your own throat as well as AMERICA's.

 :wavingflag: AMERICAN'S buy AMERICAN :wavingflag: and that's the way it will always be in my garage.


I'm done, like it or not.

(And NO, I'm not UAW or any other union member.)

 :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2009 - 01:27:44 AM »
 :iagree:  In fact I said kind of the same thing on page 2  :bigsmile:
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Offline 70burntorangeT/A

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2009 - 10:20:14 AM »
Chrysler needs to come out with a new vehicle that everyone is going to want, like they did with the mini-van in the 80's. The need to design a small vehicle that looks absolutely awsome, something that everyone will want, then make it affordable, base model with no options for about 12K, then stick an SRT-4 engine in some of them for the sportyer model. The problem is that new cars are SOOOO expensive. Im sure everyone has heard about GM shutting down a bunch of plants over the summer because they have so many cars built that they have runout of places to store them. Our local chevy dealer sells around 300 per year on average, this year they have sold 9.   Chevy probably builds a $40K truck for what?? 15-20K?? wouldnt it be better to sell that truck for 25K instead of haveing it sit in some storeage facility for 12 months because no one can give 40k for it, and having the dealership go out of buisness because they cant sell any cars, one of the salesmen told my dad that he could barely keep food on their table. Why not just try to make a few thousand off all those vehicles they have sitting around everywhere then trying to make 10K off them and only selling a few?? Its ridiculous. If the dealerships go under then who is going to sell them if we ever get out of this "Recession". plus all of those workers are going to be out of work for 3 or so months which is just going to make things worse
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Offline back n black

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2009 - 12:44:03 PM »
When a company has expanding legacy costs, unflexible unions, and greedy ceo's, they have issues.  However, many of these issues would be less troublesome if people were buying cars.  The US companies are making some of the best cars they ever have.  Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger are all great. 

They didn't cause the credit crisis that has lead to ALL manufacturers struggling. 

Offline N96

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2009 - 08:14:17 PM »
i can only add two words, obama=socialism

Offline MJS73

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2009 - 06:27:34 PM »
Quote
When a company has expanding legacy costs, unflexible unions, and greedy ceo's, they have issues.  However, many of these issues would be less troublesome if people were buying cars.

So ignore the problems when times are good?... :clueless:

Mike
www.mikes73.com
Don't PM me - send me an e-mail at mjsavage2001@yahoo.com


Offline back n black

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2009 - 09:13:34 AM »
I don't think the issues had been totally ignored.  I think the the auto companies had been reducing staff and closing plants for sometime.  It happened in my hometown.  The Chrysler plant left town and became parts supplier Metaldyne.  Our local Chrysler employees got laid off, bought out, or relocated.  Real people losing their jobs, families, homes, and careers isn't easy for anyone. 

Understand, a dramatic decline in sales will put a choke hold on any business, especially those with large operating expenses.  It's harder to scale down in pace with sales, when your operation is so large and complex. 

What kind of shape would your personal finances be in if all the sudden your home took in half as much money?  Would you have issues too? 

Offline 73Chally

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2009 - 01:15:28 PM »
I don't quite understand why the big 3 keep getting bashed for building large trucks and SUVs.  Heck, the F150 is still one of the top selling vehicles year in and year out.  They built the vehicles that people wanted to buy, at that time.  Their problem is that they were not prepared for the total BS explosion in gas prices.  If you want to blame someone for their problems, blame that idiot speculators who drove the oil prices up so ridiculously and artificially high.  Their biggest mistake was not having a good quality small car to compete with the sh1t boxes from Japan and Korea.  If it was only the big 3 that were taking a hit, then that's their fault, but when you have Toyota struggling just like the rest, then it is an industry wide problem.  You just don't hear about the foreign manufacturers nearly as much because all their money goes back to Japan, etc, and has no impact on the US economy.

Offline JH27N0B

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2009 - 01:31:32 AM »
I don't quite understand why the big 3 keep getting bashed for building large trucks and SUVs.  Heck, the F150 is still one of the top selling vehicles year in and year out.  They built the vehicles that people wanted to buy, at that time. 
It's not that hard to understand, it all boils down to some people's and some special interest group's agenda to keep repeating the lie that the big 3 is to blame for their current ills because they "didn't build the cars people wanted to buy".  The truth is that these leftists and greenies are mad at the big three for not selling the vehicles they think we should want to buy.  In other words, hybrids and mini cars.  To them, seeing people buying and driving pickups and SUVs brings the same hostility that PETA members feel when they see someone wearing a fur coat.  No difference, some of these losers even vandalize SUV's and leave phony tickets on their windshields!
In recent years, the big 3 were selling something like 8 million vehicles a year, 8 million is a pretty big sales figure for cars "people don't want to buy".  :clueless:
In fact, if they had concentrated their efforts on satisfying the greenies by marketing small and hybrid cars, they would have gone bankrupt years ago.  The streets would have just as many late model SUV's and trucks filling them today, it's just that they all would have been Tundras, Sequoias and Pathfinders instead of F150's, Cherokees and Tahoes.
It amazes me that so many people are so gullible to buy this crap about the big three.  They hear a brief report by a commentator on NPR or some politician's 30 second sound bite on the news critical of the big three and suddenly think they are experts on the big 3's problems.  Mindless sheep!!
The current political climate is dedicated to dictating to the public what kind of cars we should drive.   This policy is doomed to failure, we're all for saving the world from global warming and achieving energy independence, but our dedication will be short lived when we find ourselves trying to pack the family and the dog into some small anemic 50 mpg econobox for a 500 mile trip to see grandma or finding we can't tow our boats to the lake for some fishing behind a 35 mpg 4 cylinder hybrid pickup truck the government has mandated with their upcoming fuel mileage standards!! :2cents:

 

Offline thedodgeboys

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2009 - 07:20:15 AM »
It's not that hard to understand, it all boils down to some people's and some special interest group's agenda to keep repeating the lie that the big 3 is to blame for their current ills because they "didn't build the cars people wanted to buy".  The truth is that these leftists and greenies are mad at the big three for not selling the vehicles they think we should want to buy.  In other words, hybrids and mini cars.  To them, seeing people buying and driving pickups and SUVs brings the same hostility that PETA members feel when they see someone wearing a fur coat.  No difference, some of these losers even vandalize SUV's and leave phony tickets on their windshields!
In recent years, the big 3 were selling something like 8 million vehicles a year, 8 million is a pretty big sales figure for cars "people don't want to buy".  :clueless:
In fact, if they had concentrated their efforts on satisfying the greenies by marketing small and hybrid cars, they would have gone bankrupt years ago.  The streets would have just as many late model SUV's and trucks filling them today, it's just that they all would have been Tundras, Sequoias and Pathfinders instead of F150's, Cherokees and Tahoes.
It amazes me that so many people are so gullible to buy this crap about the big three.  They hear a brief report by a commentator on NPR or some politician's 30 second sound bite on the news critical of the big three and suddenly think they are experts on the big 3's problems.  Mindless sheep!!
The current political climate is dedicated to dictating to the public what kind of cars we should drive.   This policy is doomed to failure, we're all for saving the world from global warming and achieving energy independence, but our dedication will be short lived when we find ourselves trying to pack the family and the dog into some small anemic 50 mpg econobox for a 500 mile trip to see grandma or finding we can't tow our boats to the lake for some fishing behind a 35 mpg 4 cylinder hybrid pickup truck the government has mandated with their upcoming fuel mileage standards!! :2cents:

YEP  :2thumbs:
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Offline Bondavi

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #41 on: April 29, 2009 - 07:28:56 AM »

With today's death of the Pontiac brand, there's discussions that the government will "force the hand" of GM/Chrysler, and get this..... DICTATE what cars they can build and sell.

According to John Wolkonowicz, Senior Analyst at HIS Global Insight, "With Obama's plan, everything changes in the domestic automotive world. The government will be able to dictate what General Motors and Chrysler can sell. Washington believes it knows what Americans should drive, and this bail out gives them the means to dramatically change the market." Wolkonowicz sees the potential for a significant narrowing of choice in the automotive market. He says, "With the power given them by the bail out, the government can simply mandate certain classes of cars and trucks out of existence, regardless of whether they are popular with American drivers or not."  link to full article: http://autos.aol.com/article/car-news/corvette-demise/20090429001#cmntbgn

Scary, isn't it?

The administration can fly a 747 around New York City INCONSIDERABLY (re: reflections of 9/11) burning thousands of gallons of dirty jet fuel for just a photo op, when Photo Shop would have been easier and a whole lot "greener". The hypocrisy is mind numbing.

Oh, and now Citigroup wants to pay out bonuses.

I'm enjoying my American V-8's while I still can have "passable" fuel (no pun intended) to run on.
David

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Offline tommyg29

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2009 - 07:47:04 PM »
Its a shame but certainly no great surprise that the big 3, and indeed all manufacturers are suffering big time right now. And it galls me whenever I hear someone suggest "if they only had been more responsible by building more economical cars". THEY HAVE SURVIVED THIS LONG BY SUPPLYING WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS! And most of the time they have been very good at it. Dont blame them for making lots of money selling pickups and suvs! With the cost creeping that has happened over the years, and it happens to all mature industries, and yes, it has definitely happened to our federal government...talk about an entity that has sat at the trough for way too long!...in a capitalist system (which I hope has a chance to survive here over the next few years) the unfortunate cure for the situation is a serious correction. A revolution if you will, which would be the right term if you're talking about "resetting" a bloated and out of control government. I wish it were as painless as pressing reset on the video game, but the sad thing is that many millions of people will suffer greatly. BUT, it has to happen. The industry needs to start over. They need a chance to seriously renegotiate ALL their contracts, and start up again with a clean slate. And that is what bankruptcy can do for them. Too bad the fix may be in, and the costs that need to be reset the most probably wont be. I'll pray for all of the innocent that will be left in the wake here (including many of us here), but out of the ashes I think something good will come.
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Offline back n black

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #43 on: May 01, 2009 - 01:20:54 PM »
It's not that hard to understand, it all boils down to some people's and some special interest group's agenda to keep repeating the lie that the big 3 is to blame for their current ills because they "didn't build the cars people wanted to buy".  The truth is that these leftists and greenies are mad at the big three for not selling the vehicles they think we should want to buy.  In other words, hybrids and mini cars.  To them, seeing people buying and driving pickups and SUVs brings the same hostility that PETA members feel when they see someone wearing a fur coat.  No difference, some of these losers even vandalize SUV's and leave phony tickets on their windshields!
In recent years, the big 3 were selling something like 8 million vehicles a year, 8 million is a pretty big sales figure for cars "people don't want to buy".  :clueless:
In fact, if they had concentrated their efforts on satisfying the greenies by marketing small and hybrid cars, they would have gone bankrupt years ago.  The streets would have just as many late model SUV's and trucks filling them today, it's just that they all would have been Tundras, Sequoias and Pathfinders instead of F150's, Cherokees and Tahoes.
It amazes me that so many people are so gullible to buy this crap about the big three.  They hear a brief report by a commentator on NPR or some politician's 30 second sound bite on the news critical of the big three and suddenly think they are experts on the big 3's problems.  Mindless sheep!!
The current political climate is dedicated to dictating to the public what kind of cars we should drive.   This policy is doomed to failure, we're all for saving the world from global warming and achieving energy independence, but our dedication will be short lived when we find ourselves trying to pack the family and the dog into some small anemic 50 mpg econobox for a 500 mile trip to see grandma or finding we can't tow our boats to the lake for some fishing behind a 35 mpg 4 cylinder hybrid pickup truck the government has mandated with their upcoming fuel mileage standards!! :2cents:
:wavingflag: :2thumbs:  couldnt have said it better

Offline Wang

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Re: Chrysler bankruptcy: Grab a 08-09 Challenger while you can???!
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2009 - 02:40:42 PM »
I have NOT read this entire thread.

In regard to MPG... We have the capibility to produce cars with 300 hp (or more) and get 25-30 mpg city and 45 or better highway.  Why it doesnt happen is beyond me. (well I have my suspicions) Government wants the V 8  to die.  It is viewed a a smog emitting, fuel consuming pig.  I know of a guy that is participating in the Progressive 100 mpg challenge.  He has a  Mustang GT that has been played with. (he will not let anybody see under the hood, but this thing is the real deal).
He is obtaining 110 mpg.  The car still runs 13's in the 1/4.
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