Author Topic: It's official Chrysler and Fiat  (Read 1266 times)

Offline 72hemi

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Offline Purple73Cuda

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2009 - 10:54:47 AM »
I fear that Chrysler is going to become a company that has nothing but boring little fuel efficient cars. I think any vehicle that has power will be phased out in favor of high gas mileage. This looks like it is going to be similiar to the Daimler "merger". Fiat will only have 35% ownership once the US government is paid back, but the CEO is going to be from Fiat. This is going to be an Italian company.
I pray that I am wrong, but I don't have a good feeling about this deal turning out well for Chrysler (and Americans).
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Offline 72hemi

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2009 - 11:14:55 AM »
There is no reason that fuel efficiency and performance cannot go hand in hand. Remember Fiat does own Ferrari, so I doubt they are only into boring fuel efficient cars.
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Offline ViperMan

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2009 - 11:19:50 AM »
My only question is this:

If the UAW contributed significantly to Chrysler's downfall to begin with, and now it OWNS 55% of the company (based on article link above) then what hope does Chrysler have going forward??  The UAW didn't do the company any good before - what good could it possibly do now?
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Offline 72hemi

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2009 - 11:38:52 AM »
My only question is this:

If the UAW contributed significantly to Chrysler's downfall to begin with, and now it OWNS 55% of the company (based on article link above) then what hope does Chrysler have going forward??  The UAW didn't do the company any good before - what good could it possibly do now?

Less good then it has in the past. The next year will be interesting. If Chrysler fails it won't be because of Fiat, but because of the UAW and Federal Government.
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Offline Purple73Cuda

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2009 - 02:00:10 PM »
Chrysler Group is 55% owned by the United Auto Workers union. The U.S. government holds an 8% stake and Canada a 2% share. Fiat will not be allowed to take a majority stake until the new Chrysler pays back the $22.1 billion lent to it from the Treasury Department, including Wednesday's $6.6 billion wire transfer.

Chrysler's new board will consist of three Fiat directors, four representing the U.S. government, one from the UAW and one from the Canadian government.
If the UAW owns 55% of the New Chrysler, why do they only have one seat on the board? The US government has an 8% stake and they have 4 seats? This whole deal smells bad! I have a hard time believing this deal is going to help Chrysler survive in the long term.
I would love to see the UAW run Chrysler. I think that would be the only way you would see big changes in labor/management relations. Labor and management would work as a team more so than adversaries . Just my opinion.
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Offline 426HEMI

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009 - 02:05:12 PM »
I was wondering that also why they only got one seat.  Guess we will see how it turns out.  I hope for the best. 
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Offline Purple73Cuda

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2009 - 03:32:48 PM »
I had heard that the union was planning on holding on to their stake for a few years and then selling their stake. Maybe whoever decided who would have seats on the board knew this.
I wonder what kind of changes Marchionne has in store for Chrysler. What type of products does he want Chrysler to sell? What kind of influence will 4 US government representatives have on the board of directors and the company as a whole? It is going to get interesting! I hope they still have cars like the Challenger in the future. Otherwise, many guys will have to look elsewhere for performance cars.
I think that Ford will be the one to benefit the most from the Chrysler and GM bankruptcies. Ford will not have the government meddling in their business. It is a good thing they didn't need bailout money from the government, otherwise they would have been in the same boat as Chrysler and GM. :2cents:
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Offline 426HEMI

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2009 - 03:55:37 PM »
I bet that Ford will be in the same boat in the near future.  Maybe not but we will see.  They had already gotten some bailout money or loans.  We will just have to see.  Also heard that the banks are paying back what they got loaned to them also.  So maybe things will start to get better for everyone.   :2cents:
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Offline hebeegbz

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2009 - 04:19:00 PM »
I bought ford at 1.25 and now its at 5.00 with some small ups and downs. im happy.
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Offline HP2

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2009 - 06:28:19 PM »
My only question is this:

If the UAW contributed significantly to Chrysler's downfall to begin with, and now it OWNS 55% of the company (based on article link above) then what hope does Chrysler have going forward??  The UAW didn't do the company any good before - what good could it possibly do now?

I don't know the specifics of it all, but it is kinda like this; if the UAW wants to continue to fund its operations then it will need to start selling off its shares to gain cash. Otherwise they will not have the cash to exist as it has in the past. So as an owner, it will have to change its operating principles to remain viable, or sell of its ownership stake to maintain the status quo. I'm sure someone can provide more detailed info.

Fuel efficient, boring cars aren't bad to the survival of the company. The K cars made Chrysler viable once before, so no reason it couldn't happen again. Then the company has the ability to produce specialty performance cars for the nitch markets that want them. 

There is no reason that fuel efficiency and performance cannot go hand in hand. Remember Fiat does own Ferrari, so I doubt they are only into boring fuel efficient cars.

True. there are any number of WRX and other modern 4 bangers that can hand a muscle car its behind in both 1/4 mile times and top speed and get three times the mileage doing it.

What scares me is the government representation in this whole deal. Based on the retoric I've heard come out of Washington, they don't understand the difference between building efficient cars and building cars efficiently. GM and Chrysler are in trouble because they did not build cars efficiently, not because they don't build efficient cars. What the politicos seem to forget is that a lot of Americans want big, V8 powered vehicles that can fit lots of people in them. Detriot simply was building what we wanted and most people wanted big cars. This is again a case of the government thinking we are too dumb to know what we need so they are going to force it via automaker involvement. If I am willing to pay more at the pump to drive what I want, that is called choice. If someone else chooses to spend less of their income on gas, then that is their choice. I prefer the safety that a larger, heavier vehicle affords my family, at the price of paying for gas. BTW, my big a$$ Suburban just knocked down 20 mpg on my vacation over Memerial day. IMO, not too bad for a vehicle the size of a small bus.

Offline priderocks

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2009 - 06:57:03 PM »
I wonder how the folks at Ford feel knowing their competitors have just been handed a $50 billion infusion of cash. Let's never again hear whining about some foreign competitor having an advantage due to their government subsidies.

I would have a hard time buying a GM or Chrysler product, no matter how cool, simply because I would be feeding into a system that is intent on turning economic principles on their head.

Offline leithal

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2009 - 08:01:02 PM »
The UAW is getting paypack for their support of the Obama administration through a percentage of ownership of Chrysler.  The UAW will then sell off its shares to help with its massive debt.  Similar to the Daimler deal I think Chrysler will be a loser under foreign ownership and after several years will be sold off to some American investment group.  I just don't think American's will buy American badged/foreign cars in large enough numbers to save Chrysler.  I'm a Chevy guy...but if GM is sold off to a foreign car maker I will become a Ford loyalist.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009 - 08:02:54 PM by leithal »

Offline hebeegbz

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2009 - 08:07:59 PM »
I wonder how the folks at Ford feel knowing their competitors have just been handed a $50 billion infusion of cash. Let's never again hear whining about some foreign competitor having an advantage due to their government subsidies.

I would have a hard time buying a GM or Chrysler product, no matter how cool, simply because I would be feeding into a system that is intent on turning economic principles on their head.
I to wont buy gm or mopar again , but remember the 50b has to be paid back and ford is solvent .i bought ford based on the new brazilian plant and others to be built ,ford is already where gm and mopar wants to be in 5 years if lucky .
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Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: It's official Chrysler and Fiat
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2009 - 12:02:31 AM »
You guys don't think Ford would be in the same boat if they didn't take out that $26B line of credit back in 2007 when they still can get credit?

What makes Ford so special?  Besides the Mustang and F-150, they make nothing great.  Mercury?  Lincoln?  What a joke.

If you McCain supporters had your way, we'd have total liquidation of Gm/CHrysler.  I'd rather give them loans and be a partner, then ZERO; just so that you guys can stick to the same ideology w/o regards to the millions of those who'd be affected by liquidation.
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