Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter

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Offline hotrodded1970

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Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« on: June 15, 2009 - 07:55:56 PM »
Well im loking into the performance of a six pac setup. but i am however novice when it comes to this style of carburation.  So anyone have ideas or pros and cons of using Mopar Six Pac or a BG Six Shooter.

Also, would i get better performance from dual quads or a single four over the six pac setups.

For now this is a stock 1970 383.

upgrades will soon be ported heads and intake possible a 440 crank and a new cam. these ideas are stil in the works.
Proud Owner Of a Numbers Matching One Owner 28,000 orginal Miles 1970 Challenger 383. Oh yeah Miles Documented




Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009 - 01:49:03 AM »
well as much as I can make the 6 pack work I am really not a fan , they can be beaten pretty easily with a new intake & big single carb setup .
Ther are some other options , such as running the 69 6 pack with 3 mechanical carbs which definatly responds harder .
 While I have not tried the BG 6 shooter my experience both with the BG Demon carbs & BG themselves do not insipre confidence to ever buy another thing from them ever

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

moparniac

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009 - 06:56:06 AM »
While I have not tried the BG 6 shooter my experience both with the BG Demon carbs & BG themselves do not insipre confidence to ever buy another thing from them ever

X2 - You should have seen what Barry Grant himself posted on yellowbullet......  :scared:

Offline moper

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009 - 11:40:49 AM »
If anyone else made it I might say six shooter. But BG has too much issue with crap in the bowls and machining glitches. I love 6bbls. I dont use teh mechanical ones at all. I like the vacuum ones but do yourself a favor. If you dont personally know the carbs on a running car (like from a buddy) buy them new. There are a lot of people out there who try and modify them and they get worse. Buy new and you know where you're starting from.

Offline hotrodded1970

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009 - 01:02:57 PM »
ive have read some bad things about BG, wanted to hear what others had to say. Thank you for the quick responses.

So from what i get from some other posts I found is the hesitation and being unable to adjust the carbs on the vehical. But wouldn't jetting the carb fix the problem? But then again the jets in the holleys for the six pack cannot be removed correct?



Proud Owner Of a Numbers Matching One Owner 28,000 orginal Miles 1970 Challenger 383. Oh yeah Miles Documented

Offline 72hemi

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009 - 01:09:21 PM »
I've used both the mechanical outboard carb 6 pack system and vacuum outboard carb system. Both worked really well, but the mechanical did perform better. The problem with the mechanical outboard system, is they are no longer available and you will have to find used ones. The last set of used mechanical carbs I saw were $1300 and you would probably have to go through them, where you can buy a set of vacuum new for less than a grand (price is for carbs only, not complete setup).
1972 Dodge Challenger 340 6 Pack 4-speed
1996 Dodge Viper GTS Coupe

moparniac

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009 - 03:18:46 PM »
 :stirpot:

Barry Grant himself responds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You whiney-ass drag race wannabee heroes are something else. Denny Savage, I have no idea who you are. If I knew you, that's just how memorable you are to me. My guess is you're an old no-name four-wheel time bomb driver.

This is America - and as a consumer you have the right to support a company or not. But how about a little facts first. After many years of racing myself, and dealing with racers having fuel delivery problems, I introduced the BG 300. At that time I lived in my shop without running water, **** in the woods, took showers under a tree with a camp shower while working 100 to 120 hours a week while battling fatigue from Hepatitis C which I got from blood transfusions after a sledding accident at age 11. I was a heavy equipment mechanic and having intimate knowledge of pumps and fluids, but did damage to my back doing that work and was in a wheelchair most of the time when not in public. Anyone who has ever seen me at SEMA or PRI used to always see me in scooter. Over the last 3 years I have had 2 spinal surgeries and no longer need the wheelchair. Denny, you couldn't carry my jock strap.

I then came out with the BG 400 - derivitives of which then became Product Engineering and Magnafuel. The design was made rebuildable as I was throwing away 4 to 6 pumps a year on my own race car and often having to wrap rags around them to get through a night of drag racing. If not for me you would not have anything but the 5-6 psi Carter or the Holley blue pump. I started the super high-volume fuel pump industry with the 300 to fix a need. Planned obsolescence?? For $25 to replace a seal?? Are you guys nuts? Why do they come in for service? A guy on the other thread said he bought a used Magnafuel pump, and burned a piston. And I don't trash Magnafuel products, they are a competitor and build a good product. But theirs wear just like ours do. You are not putting 6 or 8 of theirs on a year, nor of mine. How many motors of you guys have I saved by catching a fuel pump before it went bad? Motors burn up for many reasons and components can go bad at any time, so isn't it better to do a little preventative maintenance? Gasoline is a very harsh liquid to pump and to seal. Get gas on your hands, doesn't your hands turn white as it dries out your hands? Do you think maybe it does that to a seal as well?

You put a seal in your pump, you don't have a flow bench, you don't check the pressure, volume or amperage draw, so how do you know that even though your pump is leaking that is not ready to let you down and burn your engine up? So for this kind of conscienciousness, I get mother****ed. With 80,000 units in the field, we see 1.5% of the total units in the field every year for service. Do you expect any product that you buy for your racecar for $400 to last indefinitely? I'm sorry - I'm not that smart. But neither is anybody else. We have a year of research and development in trying to find a seal that is even better than what has been so successful for over 20 years - and retrofit into the old fuel pump bodies. Once again, mother****ed for trying to treat my customers the way I want to be treated as a customer. I could have found a kickass seal and obsoleted all the old bodies, making all you guys have to buy a new pump from me or someone else. I guess no good deed goes unpunished.

Hourly workers?? I employ American workers at wages well above the average with bonuses, medical insurance, paid vacations, paid sick time and 401k. I buy components for our products from American companies.

Denny says that he has had to work on our stuff at drag racing schools. I have been to many racing schools and they are harder on components because of their round robin day in and day out usage than any racer would ever be. So anything he has to say is of no value.

King demons (puke)?? Then how come I consistently have them on order and can never get caught up? I had a racer tell me last weekend that he has had his on his car since 2000 and hasn't touched it.

Haven't gotten contingency money that you were owed in 1985?? I don't even know if I was a contingency sponsor in 1985. Give me a break!

I tell you boys what. Starting September 1, all pumps that come in that aren't returned in 7 business days from date of receipt, not including weekends, or freight time back to you, whether it needs a seal or complete rebuild, it'll be free.

By the way, why don't you trash MSD for not selling you resistors and capacitors so that you could solder them and fix your own MSD boards? Competition Cams for not giving you the technique and welding rod for welding up cam journals?

I have given my whole life to building good components for the racing community. I have won the Daytona 500, Trans Am Series, set Pro Stock records, IHRA Championships - 5 in a row. Demon carburetors are used in all the Richard Petty school cars all over the world, Jeff Gordon School cars, Mario Andretti School cars and the IROC series until it closed, the first ProMod in the 6.70's 6.60's, 6.50's and 6.40's. I had a ProMod racer who burned up a motor with a new car after he plumbed it differently that I had instructed him to plumb it. His prior car was plumbed the way I told him and he never hurt anything. But of course I was to blame. Charles Carpenter has used my fuel pumps for over 20 years. I like Charles, but I bet I don't hear from him but every couple of years to get his pumps freshened.

Buy my stuff if you choose, because I have been here for 24 years and I don't expect to be going anywhere. I'm important to the industry, otherwise who would people have to copy? I do not sit in some ivory tower. I work every day 6 to 7 days a week either at my manufacturing plant or in Concord at our R&D facility.

Treat everyone who builds parts for you like this and you'll wind up having to build your own parts. Other manufacturers have told me that they are tired of busting their butts for racers that never seem to appreciate their efforts. You don't have to drag race - you choose to - just like myself. I love drag racing and have given my whole life to it, but if none of us ever pulled to the starting line again, the world will go on.

Adam comes on this board to help those who need help - not to be run through the coals. He has been with me 16 years and was moved into his position because the service that the prior person in that job was giving customers was unacceptable. By the way he is a hotrodder and a racer. And he is not hourly. He busts his ass 60 hours a week.

Do not expect a response to anything you may have to say as a rebuttal to this. For those of you who are a customer, we appreciate you and are here to service you. Private message Adam and he'll help you. Those of you that don't like me - Barry Grant doesn’t suck - you do.

Barry Grant
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Technical Support,

Barry Grant, Inc.

www.barrygrant.com

Offline 6packCuda

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009 - 03:26:16 PM »
ive have read some bad things about BG, wanted to hear what others had to say. Thank you for the quick responses.

So from what i get from some other posts I found is the hesitation and being unable to adjust the carbs on the vehical. But wouldn't jetting the carb fix the problem? But then again the jets in the holleys for the six pack cannot be removed correct?

The jets in the center carb can be removed. You can get plates for the outboard carbs so they'll accept standard Holley jets. It's a very easy install.
Dave

Offline hotrodded1970

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009 - 01:25:46 AM »
Hey 6pack I know the upgrade plates your refering to, have you used the plates? Are they a good step up and take care of the hesitation?

Also any big difference in using RB style carbs or the B style, I was looking in mopar performance book and they had two types listed. Im assuming it has to do with the jets.

Proud Owner Of a Numbers Matching One Owner 28,000 orginal Miles 1970 Challenger 383. Oh yeah Miles Documented

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009 - 02:40:07 AM »
jetting changes on the outboard carbs can be made using Promax plates & they work great , hesitation is generally caused by too light spring pressure in the vacuum pots causing them to open too early & hesistate while the air flow pulls in enough fuel . Jetting is a flow restriction to correctly meter fuel with air flow , accelerator pumps add fuel into the airflow until the air flow creates enough pull to get fuel through the jet circuit , in the absence of accelerator pumps the air flow must be limited until enough vacuum is present under the carbs so the extra air flow can pull in enough fuel with it , this is why with vacuum secondary carbs are very hard to feel the secondaries open when properly set unlike the mechanical carb wher eyou can froce them open & they hit much harder again when tuned correctly
 I had checked on Mechanical 6 pack carbs & was told they are available new from holley but I didn`t order them , I have no clue what the difference is exactly between B & RB carbs , it could be jetting but I doubt it , it is more likely to do with Air bleeds or emusion tubes

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline hotrodded1970

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009 - 03:55:10 AM »
Thanks chryco for the great info.

I just found a set of  RB carbs that I assume my dad got in a bulk buy of parts way back when, they are not mechanical. Dont know much about them sadly cant ask him as he passed a year ago this saterday. They seem to be worth the rebuild especially if im going to put promax plates and possibly throttle bodies. Dosent seem right to buy new ones if im taking out the important parts. Cant go wrong rebuilding them either i could always buy new holleys.

The finish on them are pretty dull, any sugestions.
Proud Owner Of a Numbers Matching One Owner 28,000 orginal Miles 1970 Challenger 383. Oh yeah Miles Documented

Offline 6packCuda

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009 - 09:01:44 AM »
Hey 6pack I know the upgrade plates your refering to, have you used the plates? Are they a good step up and take care of the hesitation?

Also any big difference in using RB style carbs or the B style, I was looking in mopar performance book and they had two types listed. Im assuming it has to do with the jets.

Yes, I'm using them in mine and they work great. You can adjust the air/fuel mixture much more precisely throughout the rpm range with them and it allows more adjustability for future engine mods. Like Chryco said, your hesitation is probably related to secondary springs or accelerator pump issues. The springs are standard Holley secondary springs. You can buy sets of them with a variety of different colored springs for different tensions. Just remember, you have to buy two sets because you have two vacuum pods. Also as Chryco said, if set up correctly, the outboard carbs should come open very smoothly without any hesitation. I didn't think there was any difference between B and RB carbs.
http://promaxcarbs.bizland.com/id1.html
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-20-13/
Dave

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2009 - 12:02:42 PM »
the other "trick" with the carbs is you do not need to run the same spring front & rear , the combined load can be adjusted by running different springs

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline ragtopdodge

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Re: Chrysler Orginal Six Pac Setup or BG Six-Shooter
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2009 - 06:43:45 PM »
I dunno.  For the $2.5-3k you'll be burning for a whole new 6-pak/6-shooter setup, I'd do EFI.  A lot of money just to pop the hood open for others to gawk at w/the 6-pak setup if it's not original.

My $0.02.
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