What are your thoughts ? ?

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    Offline whitesatinmopar

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    What are your thoughts ? ?
    « on: June 25, 2009 - 08:12:36 AM »
    I haven't seen anyone post on this as yet, and please don't allow it to become "political" as in arguments, no need for that. But with what has been going on the last week or so in Iran is tragic anyway you look at it. I guess this kind of situation is why dictators take away the right to bear arms. The citizans are at the point of being led to slaughter. I don't beleieve we as a nation should intervene, but morally and ethically it's hard to not at least tell them what we think. How long will the non Arabic (Muslum) countries stay out of this? I know why I'm not a pacifisist though, ever hear of freedom fighters, these poor people need some kind of help. The government there even requires families to pay $3000.00 to pay for the bullet that killed their family menber who was protesting before they will give them the corpse. I'd give them 3000 rounds of 50 cal. protest. Sorry, but this is beyond being sad and I'm truly affected by it, it is so hard to follow the news, seeing what is happening there.
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    Offline Bullitt-

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #1 on: June 25, 2009 - 09:24:35 AM »
    Seems the least we could do is drop a MOAB or 10 on the Supreme Leader...
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    Offline leithal

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #2 on: June 25, 2009 - 09:30:22 AM »
    I agree, it is sad to see people being murdered for simply expressing opposition to their government.  The western world should be taking tougher actions against Iran's government than they have to this point.  Especially the United States.  If there is no price to pay why would Iran's government do anything different in the future.  Yes, I know there are already UN sanctions against Iran but if we do some homework we find that China and Russia are ignoring such sanctions and western powers such as Germany and France are also working around these sanctions.
    The other thing I think of is that drastic government change rarely if ever occurs peacefully.  Total power and control is intoxicating and will not be surrendered peacefully.  If Iranians want real change more blood will need to be shed.
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    Offline Pistol Gripper

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #3 on: June 25, 2009 - 12:01:39 PM »
    Looking at it from the Iranians point of view, if I were in power, rigged an election to stay in power and was then called on it by the populace, what would I do ?  First, I'd take the temperature of the world powers.  Are they voicing support for the populace ?   If they are being supported, I'd dance around, make a fake attempt at a recount, and end up supporting the results, letting the protests subside a bit,  quietly hoping the protesters don't end up overthrowing the current gov't.  If there is no support for the populace, I'd cut off all outside communications and squash the protests quickly.

    P.G.
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    Offline Purple73Cuda

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #4 on: June 25, 2009 - 12:34:43 PM »
    I feel bad for the Iranian people. I am amazed that in this day and age that the government could treat their people they way they are treating them. I don't think getting involved would help too much. I think to some extent you would have to change the people's way of thinking. I don't think changing the government would improve things.
    I hope that Iranians coming to the US for their education and being exposed to freedom will some day help them change the way the country is governed.
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    Offline burnt orange

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #5 on: June 25, 2009 - 01:07:56 PM »
    What is going on there is tragic.  The video of that dying girl reminded me of the girl kneeling over her dead friend it Kent State in the 60's.  It is amazing how people will react violently towards those who have differing political views.....the Democratic Convention riots, Kent state, the segregation/integration issues, the Quebec separatists in Canada, anti-war demonstrations........all examples (and there are many more) of political differences getting out of hand. 

    What is going on in Iran right now, as horrible as it is, is an internal Iranian affair.  The last thing that is needed now is any sort of interference by Western nations.  That part of the world is unstable enough without us sticking our non-muslim noses into it.

    Imagine for a moment if the Russians decided that the ghetto riots of the 60's were something they had the moral right to get involved in?  What a way to polarize and unify the country against them. :villagers:
     
    The U.S. has a legacy of interference in Iran's internal affairs, notably when it toppled the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953. This act, of which most Americans are unaware, is ingrained in every Iranian from childhood. It is the main cause of much of their perpetual anger at the U.S. It took 56 years for an American president to acknowledge this illegal act, when Obama did so earlier this month in Cairo.
     
    Therefore, it would be a colossal mistake to interfere in Iran's internal affairs yet again. President Obama is wise to leave this matter to be resolved by the Iranians themselves.
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    Offline NoMope Greg

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #6 on: June 25, 2009 - 01:52:15 PM »
    Quote from: burnt orange on June 25, 2009 - 01:07:56 PM
    What is going on there is tragic.  The video of that dying girl reminded me of the girl kneeling over her dead friend it Kent State in the 60's.  It is amazing how people will react violently towards those who have differing political views.....the Democratic Convention riots, Kent state, the segregation/integration issues, the Quebec separatists in Canada, anti-war demonstrations........all examples (and there are many more) of political differences getting out of hand. 

    What is going on in Iran right now, as horrible as it is, is an internal Iranian affair.  The last thing that is needed now is any sort of interference by Western nations.  That part of the world is unstable enough without us sticking our non-muslim noses into it.

    Imagine for a moment if the Russians decided that the ghetto riots of the 60's were something they had the moral right to get involved in?  What a way to polarize and unify the country against them. :villagers:
     
    The U.S. has a legacy of interference in Iran's internal affairs, notably when it toppled the democratically elected government of Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh in 1953. This act, of which most Americans are unaware, is ingrained in every Iranian from childhood. It is the main cause of much of their perpetual anger at the U.S. It took 56 years for an American president to acknowledge this illegal act, when Obama did so earlier this month in Cairo.
     
    Therefore, it would be a colossal mistake to interfere in Iran's internal affairs yet again. President Obama is wise to leave this matter to be resolved by the Iranians themselves.

     :iagree:  I think Obama is wise to wait to see how things play out before issuing a formal reponse.  IMO, his statement the other day during his press conference responding to the question about possible sanctions was very smart: "I know you guys (the media) run on a 24-hour news cycle.  I don't."  I also think it's very telling that when he did express outrage over the heavy-handed techniques of the Iranian regime in putting down the protesters, Ahmedinijad quickly labeled him "another Bush."   :blah:  :blah:  :blah:  Ultimately, the necessary change is going to have to come from within Iran and it will probably require the spilling of large amounts of blood.  Our own history reflects that.
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    Offline whitesatinmopar

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #7 on: June 26, 2009 - 08:26:15 AM »
    Quote from: Greg's HO R/T on June 25, 2009 - 01:52:15 PM
      Ultimately, the necessary change is going to have to come from within Iran and it will probably require the spilling of large amounts of blood.  Our own history reflects that.

    However as revolutions go our "patiorts" and "minutemen" had a means of defending themselves and attacking the "enemy". This situation like others in a dictatorship government would be no less than a slaughter of humanity.

    There lies too the aspect of REASON , the reasoning of the 1953 intervention was not truly one of a humanitiarn act.  I totally agree we as a nation should "physically" keep our nose out of it, but to just rather ignore what is going on is apathy at it's worst. And other countries need to react too, it appears it will be a "removal of the defectors" as far as the current leader is concerned. He will soon have things "back to normal".

    I know President Obama had hoped and wanted to create a verbal relationship with Iran mainly because of nuclear advancement within Iran, but I doubt if that would have been of much success anyway. Look at N. Korea, there is no talking to that fuzz head over there either. It's obvious there will not be an easy answer or a peaceful reversal of policy and change. One day there will be another true world war and it will make all the other wars look like a Sunday picnic. In that regard I guess I'm 63 years old, if I'm lucky I won't have to see or feel it, but it will come to the U.S. soil. I'm not a gloom and doom individual but a realist, don't sit by and think it can't happen.

    What do you do to a "disease", you either cure it or kill it...................so what is the cure? There has already been far enough killing.
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    Offline troutstreamnm

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #8 on: June 26, 2009 - 08:31:14 AM »
    Quote
    Seems the least we could do is drop a MOAB or 10 on the Supreme Leader... 
    Now that cracked me up!  Thanks for the laugh  :roflsmiley:
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    Offline TorRed R/T

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #9 on: June 26, 2009 - 08:47:13 AM »
    My thought , Well the Same things were happening here in Iraq prior to Us Coming Here , and we all know how the Media changed that around.
      I feel as though let Iran do what they want as long as it don't affect the USA period , WE can take it over stay there for 50 years  and it wont affect the way they have lived for 3000 years .
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    Offline Bullitt-

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #10 on: June 26, 2009 - 09:07:00 AM »
      Given this a bit of thought...Save the MOABs... Put France in charge, have the Pres. make a formal announcement that we will back France in whatever decision they make. Screw being leader of the free world, they as a whole don't appreciate it.
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    Offline Purple73Cuda

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    Re: What are your thoughts ? ?
    « Reply #11 on: June 26, 2009 - 12:12:51 PM »
    I just read this article:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090626/ts_nm/us_iran_election_214

    Can you believe they would execute someone because they disagree with them? I don't know if anyone could change their warped way of thinking. I am just stunned that they will execute the protesters "to teach them a lesson". These people need to stop thinking like it is 2000 years ago!
    What a messed up part of the world!
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    John
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