Author Topic: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling  (Read 4386 times)

Offline miketyler

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STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« on: July 03, 2009 - 07:27:54 PM »
You know, I am about ready to throw in the towel on this one and pull the engine back out.  :pullinghair:

Sitting in my garage today my car creeps right on up to 210* in less than 5 mins sitting idling. I thought I had made some significant progress since I discovered how loose my belts were. Now with them nice and snug its still running hotter than an all-stock 340 should.

The things I notice now are that it heats up unusually quickly. From cold, in about two minutes idling the radiator will be almost too hot for you to put your hand on. I also notice that I still cant see any visible flow from the top of the radiator. When I rev it up I can see a little movement but not like I think I should be seeing. Engine has a brand new Flow Kooler pump on it and a new balanced thermostat.

I know I have beat this issue dead and if you do a search all the history is still there (except some photos :misbehaving: ) Today I feel like I am no further along in resolving this than I was two years ago when I first put the car back together.

I have to think absence of flow is part of it but the fast heat buildup maybe another clue. Vacuum was right at 17hg idling with the Holley on. I will need to recheck to be certain there are no leaks but it runs REALLY well as is.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2009 - 07:29:28 PM by miketyler »
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moparniac

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2009 - 07:32:09 PM »
Maybe you have an airpocket in the system..... start the car with the rad cap off and let it get hot to where the t stat opens and sucks the rad dry and put more fliuds in it..... could be something small like that  :2thumbs:

Offline Moparal

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2009 - 07:38:53 PM »
I got so many questions, I dont even know where to start.   I supose you have a thread on this already?  You got a link to it that I can read first?   

Pulley speed?
New housing or used? 
Correct head gaskets?
Block sludge behind freeze plugs?
Spring in lower hose?
Bad water pump impeller?
Timing?
Rich/lean?
Have you pulled the upper hose and watched it flow out?
Thin wall bores in block?
210 at idle or cruisin is not bad if always stays at 210
Low octane?

Many questions.....Got a link?

Offline jeryst

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2009 - 07:39:21 PM »
If your radiator heats up, that means you are getting flow. Your fan should cool the radiator. Do you have a clutch fan, electric fans, stock fan?

Did you ever try pulling your thermostat out completely and seeing what happens?

Is it possible that your radiator is just too small for your motor?

Offline miketyler

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2009 - 09:16:13 PM »
I have started a few threads, do a search on "cooling" and you will uncover many of the issues I have posted trying to cure this. I will try and catch up all the details briefly here. Radiator is an OEM 26" freshly recored to a 3row. Idle speed is about 8500. Fan is stock fixed OEM fan with OEM shroud. Pulleys are billet March Performance and waterpump pulley was custom cut smaller to restore the stock AC crank:WP ratio. I assume the head gaskets are correct, the water passage holes line up fine. During the firewall replacement, I did have the block out and had to have the crank neck knurled as the harmonic balance surface area was jacked. While the block was out, I pulled freeze plugs and removed what rust crud I could but there wasnt a great deal that had settled in. All looked ok. I do have a spring in the lower hose and a new FlowKooler waterpump. I think when I last checked I was running 33* timing. I just put this new carb on so I suppose it could be runing lean but most of the reading I have done says the Edelbrocks will be rich out of the box.

A while ago I let it run with the lid off the radiator for nearly 10 minutes. Temp got up to about 230* but I was able to see some noted flow when I would accelerate. I will need to run thru timing again, and ck to see if the carb is running lean. I can enrichen the idle adjust. I cant believe how quickly this thing heats up. It has headers and new mufflers so I cant see the exhaust being backed up.           
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Offline Bullitt-

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009 - 09:20:20 PM »
Mike, I know your history with this issue & have no real solution to offer... No way you should see that kind of temp. in 5-min from a cold start...my car idling would take 10-15 just to open the t-stat.            I suppose you have tried leaving the t-stat out, & while this is not the way to operate normally you should at least be able to see the flow...& yes you can definitely tell when there is flow & the t-stat is open....puffs of steam & eventually it looks like a river running from the drivers side.     If your not loosing coolant there has to be some kind of blockage.

Good luck buddy
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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moparniac

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009 - 10:05:53 PM »
A while ago I let it run with the lid off the radiator for nearly 10 minutes. Temp got up to about 230* but I was able to see some noted flow when I would accelerate. I will need to run thru timing again, and ck to see if the carb is running lean. I can enrichen the idle adjust. I cant believe how quickly this thing heats up. It has headers and new mufflers so I cant see the exhaust being backed up.         

I think he was referrring to the cooling system being backed up.... start simple and try a new t stat.... whats the rating on your t stat in there....  :working:

Offline femtnmax

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009 - 11:20:46 PM »
All good responses.  I have a mercury thermometer that I stick in the radiator (cap removed, engine running) to verify actual temperature.  Is a good way to verify if T-stat is working correctly, and tells the true engine coolant temp.  So it verifies the gauge and thermostat are telling the truth and working correctly.
Just today, I worked on a car.. the gauge said 3/4 way to max temp at engine ide.  Well, my trusty snap-on mercury thermometer said actual temp was 168 degrees, engine has a 180 degree thermostat.  So now I know the dash gauge is wrong. 

Removing T-stat would be a good easy to do test.  Engine should run real cool then.  If not, then food for thought:   Did you install the head gaskets correctly??  They block flow at front of engine block passage and force flow to circulate thru entire block and heads.
Many factor thermostats have a small hole or one-way valve that lets air out of the system.  Does your T-stat have one?   If not, I always drill a tiny hole in T-stat, just outside of movable center portion so air can't be trapped so easily.  Works real well, so as you pour in fluids, much of the air can escape before you even start the engine.
 :2cents:
Phil

Offline BIGSHCLUNK

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009 - 11:56:43 PM »
Just my  :2cents: (I dont remember your original post) but I've seen this with head gaskets installed incorrectly. That be a real PITA, but I'm thinking you most likey checked all the obvious/easy stuff. Best of luck, I hope you figure it out before it makes you nuts!!
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Offline hooD

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2009 - 01:31:12 AM »
Sitting in my garage today my car creeps right on up to 210* in less than 5 mins sitting idling.


What type of water temp gauge are you using?  Could it be calibrated wrong, making you think that it's running hotter than it really is?  Is the sending unit for the temp gauge defective?  Good luck.
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Offline miketyler

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2009 - 08:34:40 AM »
Quote
I think he was referrring to the cooling system being backed up.... start simple and try a new t stat.... whats the rating on your t stat in there.... 

Yes, I was just recounting the possibility checklist. I think its a 180* but will be pulling it out today and can confirm. I did drill a 3/16" hole in the edge to allow minimal flow when its was closed.

Quote
If your not loosing coolant there has to be some kind of blockage.

Exactly what I was thinking although to this point I have been in denial not wanting to tear it back down.

Quote
I have a mercury thermometer that I stick in the radiator (cap removed, engine running) to verify actual temperature.  Is a good way to verify if T-stat is working correctly, and tells the true engine coolant temp.  So it verifies the gauge and thermostat are telling the truth and working correctly.

I am running both OEM and a SunPro electric gauge. When I kick on the AC the SunPro does gain about 5-10*. Its all electric am not sure why it does it. However, it will hit 230-245 with AC off just sitting idling. Its a new gauge am not ready to discreditit but I did take my infra red thermometer and at the t-tat housing it was only reading 186 and the surface of the coolant in top of radiator was around ~190*. I need to get an old school thermometer or turkey probe thermometer and try it directly in the coolant. It would be crazy if that was it. I have been using these two gauges all this time and have really been totally reliant on their indicating.

Quote
Did you install the head gaskets correctly??  They block flow at front of engine block passage and force flow to circulate thru entire block and heads.
I will be going there next. Strangely I cant find any pics I took just before the head installs.
 
 
72' Cuda restomod
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Offline bb71challenger

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2009 - 08:48:31 AM »
As fast as its heating up I fear it might be something internal too like Bigs stated. Did the machinist give ample clearance for the pistons? I have heard of people with hot running engines finally finding out that the clearance was too tight and caused friction problems.
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Offline 6packCuda

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2009 - 09:04:34 AM »
Sounds to me like your gauge is off if the infra red thermometer reads 186 at the thermostat housing and 190 in the coolant. Sounds just right to me.
Dave

Offline Bullitt-

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2009 - 10:06:08 AM »
Its a new gauge am not ready to discreditit but I did take my infra red thermometer and at the t-tat housing it was only reading 186 and the surface of the coolant in top of radiator was around ~190*. I need to get an old school thermometer or turkey probe thermometer and try it directly in the coolant. It would be crazy if that was it. I have been using these two gauges all this time and have really been totally reliant on their indicating.

 
 
 
 


Holy CRAP Mike  :22yikes:  Hold your horses....get another thermometer
   Maybe this 

« Last Edit: July 04, 2009 - 10:09:39 AM by Bullitt- »
Wade  73 Rallye 340..'77 Millennium Falcon...13 R/T Classic   Huntsville, AL
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Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: STILL overheating 210*+ sitting idling
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2009 - 12:23:40 PM »
i more thought , did you get a water pump for a magnum / serp belt system , they rotate the opposite direction

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