Author Topic: pics of sandblasting  (Read 2742 times)

Offline srt-cuda

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pics of sandblasting
« on: July 14, 2009 - 08:44:27 PM »
I have been reading threw posts for a few days now, and have found a few post of people sandblasting there cars themself(but there older post and the pictures are X and cant be seen). Before I ask this question, I know a lot of people have there car media blasted, or dipped. And I know sandblasting car warp the large sheet metal areas. I am just looking into all options. And like to hear peoples storys. So this goes to the people who have done it them self. With a HF or equivalent hoper style or any style sandblaster. Please post pictures or a link if you have documented a do it yourself sandblasting.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009 - 10:09:13 PM by srt-cuda »




wagesofsin

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Re: pics of sandblasing
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2009 - 09:06:57 PM »
i dont have any pics, but i do know this..

the only reason warpage, and distortion occur is heat. so if you dont maul one area for to long, you shouldnt see any of that sillyness. its like welding.
do a spot, move on farther down the road, then return later.

media has alot to do with it as well.

i wont go on and on, i know you asked for pics, and i have none, so...    :walkaway:


best of luck.

Offline srt-cuda

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Re: pics of sandblasing
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2009 - 09:45:54 PM »
i dont have any pics, but i do know this..

the only reason warpage, and distortion occur is heat. so if you dont maul one area for to long, you shouldnt see any of that sillyness. its like welding.
do a spot, move on farther down the road, then return later.

media has alot to do with it as well.

i wont go on and on, i know you asked for pics, and i have none, so...    :walkaway:


best of luck.

Yeah I have heard that warpage has a lot to do with the large industrial blasters, the media and staying on one spot to long.

I hope I can get some more info on this, pictures, type of at home blasters that work well, and the media that has been used. I have lots of spare time now and and really thinking about doing a lot of the body work myself.

Offline 426HEMI

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Re: pics of sandblasing
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2009 - 09:48:37 PM »
If you could use walnut shells you should be ok to do that. 
Got a pretty good start on my M46 optioned Barracuda restoration but now it is on hold till I can gather more funds.  Still need a few parts for it.  SIU Graduate 75 AAS Automotive Tech, 94 BS Advanced Tech Studies, 1997 MSED Workforce Education and Development

1970 M46 Barracuda
1998 Dodge Darango

Gordon

wagesofsin

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Re: pics of sandblasing
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2009 - 09:58:34 PM »
If you could use walnut shells you should be ok to do that.


all depends what hes wanting to strip, paint and old filler will need a bit more aggressive substrate. i have walnut shells in my cabinet blaster for aluminum, finishing and such.
the equipment is going to be a big factor in the quality of the finished job, high pressure, mass volume, it wont matter what material you use, your gonne heat stuff up. a good quality blaster, or soda machine will be well worth the money vested.

soda blasting would be a better route in my opinion. h.f. sells one for around 100 clams. and the media is about 36.


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66742
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009 - 10:02:03 PM by wagesofsin »

Offline srt-cuda

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Re: pics of sandblasing
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2009 - 10:06:48 PM »
I would be striping the car itself, theres not a lot of rust, and I would use paint remover on the larger body panels.

wagesofsin

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2009 - 10:14:41 PM »
i wouldnt use paint remover...   :eek4:   :puke:

use 80 grit, or 40 and a d.a.   :thinkerg:

youll get a better feel for the surface that way.   :bigsmile:

Offline Topcat

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009 - 10:47:13 PM »
i dont have any pics, but i do know this..
the only reason warpage, and distortion occur is heat. so if you dont maul one area for to long, you shouldnt see any of that sillyness. its like welding.
do a spot, move on farther down the road, then return later.
i wont go on and on, i know you asked for pics, and i have none, so...    :walkaway:
best of luck.



Read this post then after, read the whole thread if you would like. After you read it, you might conclude as I did that it isn't heat that causes warpage but molocules re arranging.

Sandblast warping
However, the mechanism that creates warpage is not the heat associated with friction of the abrasives hitting the metal. Rather it is the compressive forces induced within the sheet of metal by the heavy abrasive particles hitting the metal surface. You will not see this same warping when light abrasives are used because they lack the kinetic energy required to compress the molecules in the steel sheet thus leaving the sheet in the same stress state as it was in when formed by the dies at the factory.
This is a common misunderstanding, yet this behavior is well understood by some industries and is exploited by those who understand it to improve fatigue life of certain parts (like connecting rods for instance - they are often shot peened to redistribute stresses and place the surface of the rods in compression to reduce fatigue crack propagation).
When you blast one side of sheet metal, that side of the sheet metal surface will build compressive stresses and will physically grow - this places the opposite side of the sheet into tension - this will result in the side being blasted to bow up toward the blasting source.
In order for warping to occur due to thermal conditioning - the metal actually has to be heated up to a point where the molecules reach a transition state where they go from one packing arrangement to another (close cubic packed to close hex packed) - picture a six pack of beer held together with the plastic rings - that is stress relieved / annealed steel. Now - take the cans out and stack them so that each row of cans is offset by half a can diameter - this is a tighter pack - although less friendly from a packaging standpoint at the grocery store. This new denser orientation is the orientation that steel molecules take on when raised to a sufficient temperature (depends on carbon content and alloys) . . . if you raise steel to this temperature and then quench it - you lock the close packing orientation into this dense packing structure and this results in shrinkage (and increased hardness / brittleness).
Using this technique it is possible to take a piece of 1013 mild steel, whack a piece off, heat the piece up and then drop it in a bucket of water, use a water cooled grinder to sharpen it . . . and then you can cut the parent piece of metal with it as it is harder and denser in this condition.
Soooooo . . . . that is the difference between warping / shrinkage of metal due to sandblasting (compressive mechanism - localized molecular packing) or due to thermal influences (gross - macroscopic transition of molecules to a higher density due to re-orientation of molecular packing).
With all this knowledge in hand (or mind) . . . you now also know that thermal conditioning is typically used to shrink metal on a localized basis where sandblasting will always cause metal to grow on a localized basis.
Hope this makes sense.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=why+does+sheetmetal+warp+from+sand+blasting%3F&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotrodders.com%2Fforum%2Fsandblast-warping-heat-myth-76938.html
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline srt-cuda

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2009 - 10:58:48 PM »

Read this post then after, read the whole thread if you would like. After you read it, you might conclude as I did that it isn't heat that causes warpage but molocules re arranging.

Sandblast warping
However, the mechanism that creates warpage is not the heat associated with friction of the abrasives hitting the metal. Rather it is the compressive forces induced within the sheet of metal by the heavy abrasive particles hitting the metal surface. You will not see this same warping when light abrasives are used because they lack the kinetic energy required to compress the molecules in the steel sheet thus leaving the sheet in the same stress state as it was in when formed by the dies at the factory.
This is a common misunderstanding, yet this behavior is well understood by some industries and is exploited by those who understand it to improve fatigue life of certain parts (like connecting rods for instance - they are often shot peened to redistribute stresses and place the surface of the rods in compression to reduce fatigue crack propagation).
When you blast one side of sheet metal, that side of the sheet metal surface will build compressive stresses and will physically grow - this places the opposite side of the sheet into tension - this will result in the side being blasted to bow up toward the blasting source.
In order for warping to occur due to thermal conditioning - the metal actually has to be heated up to a point where the molecules reach a transition state where they go from one packing arrangement to another (close cubic packed to close hex packed) - picture a six pack of beer held together with the plastic rings - that is stress relieved / annealed steel. Now - take the cans out and stack them so that each row of cans is offset by half a can diameter - this is a tighter pack - although less friendly from a packaging standpoint at the grocery store. This new denser orientation is the orientation that steel molecules take on when raised to a sufficient temperature (depends on carbon content and alloys) . . . if you raise steel to this temperature and then quench it - you lock the close packing orientation into this dense packing structure and this results in shrinkage (and increased hardness / brittleness).
Using this technique it is possible to take a piece of 1013 mild steel, whack a piece off, heat the piece up and then drop it in a bucket of water, use a water cooled grinder to sharpen it . . . and then you can cut the parent piece of metal with it as it is harder and denser in this condition.
Soooooo . . . . that is the difference between warping / shrinkage of metal due to sandblasting (compressive mechanism - localized molecular packing) or due to thermal influences (gross - macroscopic transition of molecules to a higher density due to re-orientation of molecular packing).
With all this knowledge in hand (or mind) . . . you now also know that thermal conditioning is typically used to shrink metal on a localized basis where sandblasting will always cause metal to grow on a localized basis.
Hope this makes sense.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=why+does+sheetmetal+warp+from+sand+blasting%3F&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotrodders.com%2Fforum%2Fsandblast-warping-heat-myth-76938.html


Wow looks like you have also looked into this. That is some good info, I will have to read it a few times to have it all soak in :clueless: haha 

Ok I found this on HF site, what do you guys think?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95014  or smaller

using 30-40 grit plastic for the media, this seems like pretty light stuff, I will look into a few steps higher also. O just relized it has a Paint stripping rate at bottom, sq.ft/minute humm
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97818

This is more just looking around and getting ideas, just research now. Thank you everyone who has replyed!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009 - 11:07:07 PM by srt-cuda »

Offline Topcat

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009 - 11:10:15 PM »
I have that same exact unit. I just started playing with it and like it now that I have the hang of it. The trick I did on mine was to open the sand nozzle below part way. All the way open puts out too much sand... or media, whatever type you choose. then adjust Air PSI. Keep under 100. I think I was at 80 PSI when I did my K member.

I have been using aluminum oxide media with great results. It has a fast cutting action that doesn't hammer the sheetmetal which is what as you read,...warpage occuring. Sand creates Silica dust which is very harmful to breath. I did sand once without the right expensive sealed breathing mask that pumps in fresh air to your face. My chest hurt after that and I quit doing sand altogether. The Aluminum oxide and another one, Garnet, are the fastest cutting abrasive that can be done at lower PSI's with little or no dust. Don't do either one on the outside body sheet metal. Underneath would be best if you plan to use these types.
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline Topcat

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2009 - 11:12:32 PM »
Look at this
Mike, Fremont, CA.


Offline srt-cuda

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2009 - 11:22:25 PM »
Nice, good info

So let me post a few pics of my car and see what you guys think. I picked the car up a few mounths back and have done no work on it yet, just now getting into it. So I have no idea what it looked like before the primer was sprayed over a lot of the car. Thats the reason I want to get all that stuf off, So I can see what all I am dealing with, and have a clean start. I know these arint the best pics but You can get an idea of what I am working with. I am new to body work, and to me I want to remove everything thats on the car the old paint and primer and get down the the metal and start freash. Its the hole car, So it might take a long long time if I did it myself. What do you guys think? There is some bondo over a few spots, and I will be replacing the rear quarter skins maybe the hole quarter im not sure yet.





« Last Edit: July 14, 2009 - 11:26:47 PM by srt-cuda »

Offline LAA66

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2009 - 11:52:51 PM »
 My thought would be to use a DA sander or similar to see whats there. Follow up with a blast media in the pitted or any active rust areas as needed. :2cents:

Offline srt-cuda

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2009 - 01:33:20 PM »
Ok so looks like I can use a DA sander, and a blaster to do the rest. Ok next question is; this could take a day or two or three, so if I start on the front working to back could there be surface rust bad enough to do damage by the time I get done? I will be using omni epoxy, and I will scuff the bare metel before that is applyed. Also is there a cleaner/chemical cleaner I need to apply after sanding and media blasting to take off all dust and whatever is on there? Im sure its going to take a good amoutn of work to remove all the media out and off the car.

Offline LAA66

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Re: pics of sandblasting
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2009 - 09:01:00 PM »
 That's why I thought to only blast the areas needed so "heavy" debris is limited.We used to finished up using lacquer thinner soaked rags in one hand then quickly followed up with a dry one in the other. Tach cloth just prior too spraying.

 Depending on your humidity I think you OK with metal being exposed for a week or so.

 All of the crevices need to be checked thoroughly and cleared of loose particles. Use a shop vac initially followed by liberal air nozzle work. Wear goggles and resperator for sure in this stage.