Hey I got a crazy idea this past weekend...

[pink panther]

I don't persoanlly know you Jeff, However I believe everyone here is just trying to watch out for you and don't want you to make a big mistake.

It is your money and you can spend it how you so choose, if you buy the kit and build it and for some reason or another are disappointed with it, be it the fit, the resale, not what you thought it would be, it will be your decision and only you to blame. If you don't build it, you will probably always wonder what could have been, so do whatever makes you happy and don't worry about other's opinion. 

Please realize though that you posted this for feedback and that is what everyone is giving you.

[ViperMan]

Yeah I know - I kinda wanted feedback on the idea of a HEMI powered kit car.

Panther though - you kinda got to what I was originally talking about.  I want the experience of building a car.  I want to be able to stand back and say "I BUILT that..."  Yeah I can get an old 'Cuda and fix it up, but I can't do it.  I mean, I can replace the engine, swap out suspension - the mechanical end of things.  But so much of what OLD cars need fixed is the BODY WORK - and I just flat can't do that.

So I thought about building a kit car.  Most of the kit cars you can buy are Cobra look-alikes.  I respect the Cobra (the Viper's ancestor) but don't personally want one.  I found tons of Lamborhini and Ferrari replicars, even an Amphibious Kit-Truck (that was kinda cool) but what the heck am I going to do with that?!  The GTM was the only kit I found that 1) wasn't copying something else 2) had a ROOF and 3) didn't cost $100,000 dollars!!  I'm never going to get to own a $100K Ferrari.  I know this - there will always be something that is more important than blowing that kind of money on a car.  Ya know, $40K doesn't get you much these days.  You can get a modest Jeep Cherokee for $40,000.  $40K in the automotive world isn't exactly worth much these days.  And as far as "already owning an expensive car," I paid LESS than $40K on the Viper.  As far as cars go, $40-$50K is pretty much my limit.  Anymore than that and I'm just wasting money.  Thus the reason I didn't want to spend $40K to restore my old 'Cuda - when you can buy a rather nice one for $30K (I'm still shopping for them on Ebay and elsewhere.)

I just really want to build a car.  If I could do it for 10K I would.  Unfortunately, the GTM looks to be about as cheap as it gets...

Jeff

[73Chally]

I think the resale topic keeps coming up because of the reality of today's times.  You said it yourself, you had no intention of selling your Cuda, but you had to because of the reality of your situation.  What happens if you get $40K into the kit car and 3 years from now, while it is still a pile of nuts and bolts in your shed, and you lose your next job and have to sell.  How much do you think you will get for it, compared to spending $30K on a finished Cuda and having to sell it?

You throw this stuff out and people give you sensible opinions, but then you get defensive when they are not in agreement with you.  Not one single person has come out said "yeah, I think it's a great idea and wish I could do it myself".  No one agrees with your thoughts, which is fine, but you keep pushing it. 

I'll just jump on the pile.  It's your money, so if it's what you want, do it, and pay no attention to the opinions that you yourself have solicited.

Just saw your last post - Your fear is body work?  Just how perfect do you think a fiberglass shell is going to be shipped in a crate?  At least with metal you can try, try, and try again.  With fiberglass, if you screw it up, you need to rebuild the whole panel.  Why do you think it is so expensive to strip and paint a Corvette?  If you sand too much on one spot, you will VERY easily sand into a low spot, and screw the whole thing up.

[72hemi]

Jeff kit cars need a lot of body work. I have never seen a kit car that did not require body work. Even the best kits need some body work.

[wally426ci]

  Its not a Lego set, there will definitely be some imperfect body panels.......

 

[HP2]

Well, I have never built a kit car, so it is a little foreign to me. I have built multiple race cars, to include many door cars and a couple of open wheel modifieds. I have restored a couple of cars too, so my opinion comes from the experience of doing these things.
 

Lets pass over the budget thing. Cars are expensive, period. To some a $5k car is out of reach, for other a $40k, for some it is $100k.  That is why it is called a challange, we always strive for those things just beyond our reach to push ourselves.

A couple of things I've gleaned from reading three pages of this that bring up some questions; where will you build it? Your thinking of moving, will you get a turn key home, one requiring some work, what type of garage, how much space, etc. You could be looking at up to a few years worth of "home work" to prepare a place to build cars in. Other hand is you could buy the perfect place and after a couple months of moving, be ready to fire up the welder.

Secondly, what are your skills? I've never seen that mentioned here. If you were thinking about paying people to work on your Cuda, why? Was it the technical nature of the work, the tools, the desire for the finished product, or just the rust? What is your perception of a kit car that leads you to think it would be an easier build than the cuda?  I didn't read through all your cuda posts, so I maybe missed some of that along the way. Have you takena car apart and put it back together? This is what I would say is the first competentcy you want to have. If you would struggle with taking apart a product that is complete, then putting it back together, your going to struggle with a kit. On a complete car, everything has been designed and together previously, so you know it all has a home and functions. Look at the number of posts onhere asking how do I install this or make that fit. It is nto as easy as it appears.

While I don't doubt that kit car companies try to provide as much as possible, anytime your doing a build with self sourced parts, you will find you can spend 4 hours of parts chasing to every 1 hour of actual build time. Your also considering deviating from their recipe. That automatically means custom and specialized parts. I guarantee there is no one out that who has a 3g Hemi to 911 transaxle adapter. That is custom machine work that comes with a long lead time and a steep price tag, when you can finally find someone to take it on.

What do you have for tools? Unless you already have a reasonable large roll around box that is well stocked, your going to find you need another tool every other weekend. That could easily add another $10k to the build as you acquire more and more specialized equipment. Can you weld? Even if they sell you a complete frame assembly, you going to run in to fitment and location on items that you'll need to alter. Unless you are confident enough in your skills to trust your life, as well as your wife's or anyone else you may pass on the road, that means more subbing out of work, more time, more expense, you get the drift. Same with body work and paint. Kits cars will require it, and a fair lot more than just bolting on a new fender. Same drill as above.


Ultimately it is your dime and your time. I think any of a number of members on here will tell you that waiting to get a car your building on the road is a method of slow torture and for that reason alone would discourage you from doing it. If you do build it, it will be a neat deal when it is done. It will be unique, it will be fast. But, I'm willing to bet it will take twice as much money as you budget and three times as much time.

 

[HemiDog]

If I try to look at this as you just wanting the experience to build a car, I would look at several other scenarios before a kit car.

One: buy an old muscle car and rebuild it.   If money is an issue, I would look at a Chevy.  An old Nova, Chevelle, Camaro, etc...   Parts are cheaper and easier to come by.  Granted  you don't come out with something as unique as a Mopar, but you get the experience with out fear of messing up something unique.  More than likely, someone will always buy it off you and the buyer would be easier to find.  If you source your parts right, you could come out with a very nice car for $10,000 to $15,000.  Maybe cheaper.

Two: Buy a frame for a hot rod and find a body for it.  Keep it simple, but use the drive train you want.  If you want the experience, it will give you all the experience you want.  You may decide to farm out some of the work, but you don't have to farm it all out.

Three: Buy a Dynacorn Camaro or Mustang.  You start with a solid body and use easily found parts to finish it, the way you want.

Four: Kit car.  Never heard of a kit car that doesn't need fabrication.  Don't see many that look good in person either.  The ones that do look good, usually don't have much of a body, like a Cobra.  That isn't going to be a daily driver.

No matter what course you take, you need tools, a place do to the work, and will have to do body work.  Originally when I took on my project, I thought 2 years tops.  It is now going on 4+ years.  I have had unforeseen events that have pushed the project back.  Just think, that if you have to rent space to do this, what that would do to your budget if you can't stay on schedule.

If I had $40,000 to spend.  I would pay the debt off.  School loans or what ever.  Especially in these times.

[Chryco Psycho]

Well ultimatly you have to build what you want , the kit car can be very rewarding as a challenge , you will learn a lot building it , as other have said you really need a better situation to build a car

[hebeegbz]

I have so much to say here and dont even know were to start .
long walks wifes working on cars and no money huge dept no job no visible talent no place to work limited tools . I have met only a few people that ever built a car ,many that have bolted parts on them but seldom a complete car . I wish the famous UT hustler was here to shed some light .me thinks

[moparniac]

Jeff we are just all looking out for you as you seem a little blind right now 

You dont wanna build a cuda but you wanna build a kit car  ....... ever just see a fiberglass fender get fitted to a muscle car.... like the guy said its not a lego set!

Im sorry but youll get more back out of the cuda than you will with a GTM wanna be car!

I have a vey nice 71 Dart now.... they did a very nice job on! it just dont feel the same as the challenger as I built that challenger! It is the ULTIMATE sense of accomplishment to finish your car regardless of price! you have yet to experience that to understand!

Anyway you look at it right now you are in decent debt as you have stated! who cares if its credit card or school loans its all debt! not to mention unemployed! no mater what car you build you will be in more debt!

I think you need to slow down and prioritize first! 

As far as the gman thing the foreigners love our cars as much if not more than us and are more of a prize to them! 

when you have "steady" employment maybe you should consider a done chassis for a cuda and do up the interior and powerplant overtime 

A cuda is way cooler than any GTM car and no matter what you say muscle car prices will always rise and go up in value......

[moparniac]

no money huge dept no job no visible talent no place to work limited tools .

Jeff I bumped those posts up just to show you that you love ALL cars...... and you fly by the seat of your pants too much!  next week it will be a bugatti veyron..... 

No matter what car you decide to build or whatever how long do you think it would take you to get it done!

I have no doubt before your time is up you will have other cars in your life  Good Luck! 

[MEK-Dangerfield]

Jeff,

  The only thing I can really say here is slow down buddy!!   

You are young and energetic, and we can sense that by your posts. If I were you, I would wait until I got settled into a new job...be it in Virginia, or someplace else. I think your first priority should be to buy a house so you are building equity, instead of renting and making someone else's wallet fatter. You already have one great car, the kit car can come later. Do realize if you do buy it, it will test your patience, and take way longer to build than you expected. I'm still not really done with my 70 Challenger.   


  Mike

[ViperMan]

EVERYBODY!!!  I DIDN'T START THIS POST BY ASKING FOR FINANCIAL ADVICE!!!

If I wanted financial advice I'd call my freakin' father.  And 2 hours later I'd probably put a bullet through my head!  (Seriously I love the guy but he talks money until... ...well, you wanna put a bullet in your head!)

I'm not buying ANYTHING right now.  I'm not even THINKING about buying anything... ...okay that's a lie.  But I'm not buying anything!

In the past 14 months while I worked at AEP, I knocked out nearly THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS of debt.  For six of those months I put $3,000 into the lowest bill, and the last six months I put $2,000 to $2,500 (after buying the Viper.)  I knocked out FOUR credit cards, one car, and one of my school loans.

SO I DON'T NEED FINANCIAL ADVICE!!  I KNOW how to manage my funds and prioritize my purchases.

That being said, I'm going to move on to the CAR comments as I wanted suggestions surrounding the CAR and the PROJECT - not the MONEY.

I have NOOOOOOO interest in any old car besides a 'Cuda.  I don't want a Camaro or a Nova or anything like that.  The only reason I even know what a 'Cuda IS is because of my father's '72 340 Cuda that I rode in from San Diego to Annapolis Maryland as an 11-month-old infant.  That car was part of my life since I was born.  I really didn't come to care much for it until high school (and by then I was already a Viper nut.)  When I bought my 'Cuda, I hoped that my dad would support me because of the fact that the purchase was inspired by him.  He really couldn't have cared less, and basically suggested I get rid of it the day after I bought it.  It was only because I enjoyed working on it and driving it that I decided I was indeed a 'Cuda fan myself and decided to stay the course.  So if I get another muscle car, it'll be another round-taillight 'Cuda.  But I'm going to buy one that is structurally sound and only needs minor mechanical work.  I'd still like to build my own 440 and install it, but I'm not really looking to "BUILD" a musclecar.

HP2, you brought up some phenomenal points and I want to address them because they're the best constructive criticism I've received yet!!

YES - I have torn apart cars and put them back together again.  Not quite to the level that I'll be assembling a kit car, but mechanical work doesn't scare me.  I know it'll be challenging - that's the draw.  It might be more challenging than I think, but again, that's the draw.

NO - I do not yet have the place to work on such a car - thus why I'm not buying it tomorrow!  I actually expect that I'll need a THREE bay garage just to build one car!  One for the GTM, one for the donor car/parts, and one just for general... ..working.  But it's on my plans to buy a garage that's ready to work in, getting a Sears air-compressor, and getting to work.

YES - I have tools.  I don't have every tool in the world, but I've got a rolling box that I used at the restoration shop, the Ford shop, Goodyear, etc.  I've got Craftsman stuff, Snap-On stuff, Mac, Matco, even Cornwell.  The one tool I certainly know I'll be needing is a top-notch scan tool with live-data functionality.

YES - I have skills.  I think the preceding question should answer some of that - I've worked at a number of different shops, and of course have tackled numerous challenges of my own.  Hell I'm used to tearing out dashboards and doing brake jobs in apartment parking lots.  I think getting a roof over my head will certainly expand my capabilities!  The reason I didn't want to tackle the 'Cuda work is because it was all body.  I have tried time and time again to "feel the highs and lows" of a panel before and after laying body filler, and I simply don't have the hands for it - the feel for it.  I can do above-average welding work, but once you get to puddy and paint, I'm quite frankly not the man for the job.

So this has opened up a new area to seek knowledge - body work on a kit car.  After a few people mentioned it here, I went and signed up on the Factory Five Racing chat forum (I think it might be my tenth one...) and starting to ask some questions.  I'm getting average expectations of 10-15K for body work expenses, which is a little more than I wanted to be responsible for.  So I have to think about this some more.  In that regard, I appreciate you guys making me think about it.

OH - and by the way, there IS a company that has ALREADY produced a kit that converts the back of the 5.7 and 6.1 HEMI's with a Porsche Transmission.  Trust me - I was just as shocked as you might be, but here's the link to prove that I found it already!

http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm

And Stroker, if I had $1,000,000 for a Bugatti Veyron... ...well, you'd have to do a LOT of work to that Dart to keep up with me.  ;-)  In fact, the Veyron was the ONLY car I considered doing a "replicar" of, but anyone who saw it and KNEW what it actually was would ultimately be rather disappointed to learn that it was a facsimile.  By the way did you see the new Veyron Grand Sport convertible?  Looks gorgeous.  Price?  Just shy of $2,000,000.  I don't think one of those will be on my financial horizon any time soon!

Jeff

[wally426ci]

I'm going to slip out the back door on this one. 

[moparniac]

I'm going to slip out the back door on this one. 

LOL


I dont think its your financial knowledge as I remember your old posts of paying off all your stuff....... but back to bumping up those post was just a joke not a dig just to show you you want a different car every other day 

Jeff If I ever hit the powerball I will buy you whatever car you want!  but the 68 Dart is still the fastest produced amercan muscle car off all time! Imagine running 10's it 1968.. that would have been a hammer !