street 440 build?

[hot440roddin]

New here, I have a 440 that I bought from a guy, says it runs, but looks to be mostly factory, if not completely factory. It's a later block, '7? don't remember exactly what it is right off hand. Anyway, I'm wanting to build a nice cruising motor with some oopmth to it. Here's what I'm thinking;
-Factory block + .030
-KB pistons: # KB237KTM030
-Factory crank and rods (I would like to run ARP hardware though)
-Factory heads, not sure on which ones that are on it, but based on the year, I'm thinking that they are the 42 heads.
-Hydraulic flat tappet cam with matching springs (if I can get away with reusing the factory retainers and keepers, then that would be a plus)
-Would like to run a double roller timing chain
-Will be running a bigger oil pan with matching pickup, keep the factory size pickup tube
-Brass freeze plugs
-I'm thinking that a 750 cfm carb will be fine for this motor, I have an old Holley sitting around that I can use, am thinking about going to a 1" phenolic spacer 4 hole
-Mopar electronic dist with either orange or chrome ecu and MSD Street fire wires with Autolite plugs (have a new set from a previous car sitting around)
-Mopar Performance aluminum water pump with Milodon HV water pump also aluminum
-New flex plate, 727 will be behind this motor along with 8 3/4 with 3.23 gears for now
-Stant 180* t-stat I think will do fine
-I will want to replace the rocker arm assembly and go with something a little better, but nothing high dollar
-I will end up having the mains line honed b/c I want to run main studs, and run a new factory style windage tray
-I don't think that a hv oil pump would hurt anything either
-I have a set of Heddman headers #78030 nothing fancy, just something for now
-Do plan on running a 3" exhaust system this way if down the road I run something.. more, then I'll have an exhaust system that should be able to handle it
I'm thinking that's about it, wondering what you all think. I know the gears are numerically low, but until later on, this is what I'll be running. I'm not sure what cam to run, I was looking at Mancini Racing, and saw a cam kit they offer that has an PM range of idle to 5800 rpm, I think it was a Mopar cam, let me see if I can find the kit... Here's the link http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/maravapopa1.html it's part #P4452783. I looked the spec's up for that cam, here's what it says:
Cam Style      Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range      Idle-5,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift      228
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift      241
Duration at 050 inch Lift      228 int./241 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration      268
Advertised Exhaust Duration      284
Advertised Duration      268 int./284 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio      0.450 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio      0.458 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio      0.450 int./0.458 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees)      115
Camshaft Gear Attachment      1-bolt
Intake Valve Lash      0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash      0.000 in.

It seems like a small cam, esp for a motor that should be of a performance nature, then again.... From what I understand, the pistons listed above should be fine for my application, hoping to bump the compression up some with those pistons, I'm not planning on running forced induction, and no NOX. This will be just something to run around in, and should I want to show off some, maybe even light the tires up every once in a while. I look forward to your questions and comments, thanks for your time in looking at this and any help you might can lend.

[The Cuda Guy]

Neil runs this fourm but I can tell you this cam is way small and I would also suggest a 3 bolt cam.

Don

[hot440roddin]

Yeah, I was thinking that it seemed a bit small, I have actually been thinking about the .484 cam, though I've only seen it listed in a one bolt and not a three bolt cam. The one I listed above is listed as a one bolt, but I have seen a three bolt cam listed...

[The Cuda Guy]

Best bet is to wait on chryco (Neil) he will run you through some questions like comp ratio rear end gear ect and will help you dial in what you should be looking for.  Good luck bro.

Don

[71chally416]

Don't even think about using the stock valve keepers. 

[Chryco Psycho]

I see a few issues
1 - for a few more $$ , often lkess than a gasket kit you can get a lightweight forged piston , this is not nessisary for what you are doing now but you will get bored of what you have & will want more , this way the better piston is in there already & you can just swap bolt on parts for more power without rebuilding again
2 - Use a HP [high pressure ] pump not the high volume , you can empty the pan & starve the mains with the HV & the factory volums is more than adequate , I would use the 6 Qt Hemi pan
3 - a 750 carb is about  equal to running a 2 bbl , the factory had a 800 CFM TQ on a 340 , use an 850 CFM , it will run on the 440 until you can afford a good 850
4 - the factroy rockers are very good & for most hyd cams they are just fine , put your $$ in more important areas
5 - for Cam choice I would use the Lunati VooDoo series 60303 cam ground on a 3 bolt blank would be ideal , you will need spring to match the cam grind & retainers & 10 * locks

[hot440roddin]

Thanks Cuda Guy for the luck, some times I think I need it.

Chryco,
-If not the KB, then would you suggest the TRW piston? I saw some folks talking about running this piston..
-I'm wanting to say that the oil pan that I have is either a 7 or 8 qt, I think it's a 7 qt though. If the high pressure is the better route than the hv, then I'll look into getting the hp instead of the hv.
-Since the 850 is the better choice, any suggestions? I thought about the Demon line, but have been hearing things about the QFT, Proform, and some others.
-If my current factory rockers will do fine, then I'll keep them
-I'll check out the cam, and see if they have a complete kit like I've seen Comp do.

 

[Chryco Psycho]

Proform or Quick Fuel would be my choice , Holley doesn`t have the HP series 850 , stay away from Demons , they can be very problematic

[hot440roddin]

I looked up the TRW forged pistons, but am not sure which compression height would be right for my application. Being that I'm gonna reuse the factory heads, crank, and connecting rods, which set would be right for this motor?
1- L2266F 30
2- L2355F 30 this one says it's for the 440 Six Pack, it would get the compression up, but would it be too much?
http://www.campbellenterprises.com/mopar_speed_pro_trw_forged_pistons.htm
I am wanting to run pump gas, and am not wanting to have to adjust the ignition timing around the motor due to high compression to keep it from detonating and what not. I never mentioned intakes, right now I have the fctory style cast iron 4bbl, been thinking about going to aluminum, read some stuff about the Edelbrock CH4B, but can't seem to hardly ever find one. Have found about 2 on Ebay, but one had a crack in it, and the other one had been drilled for NOX use... I don't see the Holley Street Dominator working well for me since it's a single plane when I think the dual plane will help more... As for the above cam, did a search on it, looks nice:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-60303LK/
Will have to do a search for the springs, retainers, and keepers. Looked into the Profrom 850 series carbs, none of which have a choke... So I looked into the QFT carbs, found this:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/QFT-SS-830/ It's not an 850, but it is an 830 cfm carb. It also has the electric choke, does have mechanical secondaries though (I don't think that will hurt though), along with other things too. Was wondering what you thought about this.

[Chryco Psycho]

TRW pistons weigth a ton , Check with 440 Source , he probably has a lightweigth wiseco for a reasonable price
 most 440 blocks have a higher deck than they call for so even a 10:1 piston may only really get 9.6 unless you deck the block down , Quench would be more important to me than actual compression & the quench will stop detonation so 440 Source may have a quench dome piston to work with your heads .
 The single plane intake is more of a myth than reality on a 440 , ask a lot of the members here , the Holley Street Dom doesn`t give up any significant bottom end & works awesome , same with the choke , these cars are prodominantly driven in warm weather & the proform works so well you will hardly notice it doesn`t have the choke , typically you have to feather the throttle for about 30 seconds on a cold start, the Quick fuel should work well also

[hot440roddin]

I'll look into 440 Source for  possible set of Wiseco pistons. I've been hearing some disturbing things about 440 Source, mostly about water pump issues and stroker kit issues though...
I'm not sure what the current compression is on the motor, but I know it was produced after '72 so it's a low compression motor, hoping to get at least a 9.5:1 comp out of it. I also need to yank one of the valve covers off and see exactly what heads are on it, based on the fact that it's a later block, I'm figuring that it's going to have 452 heads on it.... I used to have another set of 452's that needed some work, but those are gone, I have a set of 915's sitting around (but they were on a 440 that unfortanatly sat outside for some time, need I say more?), I also have a set of 516 heads that have been stripped down, but to my knowledge have not been touched... But I'm hoping for 452 heads on this motor.
I'll keep an eye out for a Street Dominator intake, wished I had my old one, perhaps I can give the guy a call, see if they continued use with it, if not maybe I can get it back... Last I heard they were restoring the car, and the factory didn't use a Holley Street Dominator intake....
If the Proform want be a problem, then I'll just go with it.

[Chryco Psycho]

I have had no issues using 440 Source strokers , it just depends what you are using them for , anyhting can be broken

[hot440roddin]

Some of the issues that I have heard about with their water pump assemblies is their flow rates not being good enough and a bunch of motors running 200* F or so while in the car. The stroker kits I've heard things mostly were with the crankshaft still needing more machine work piror to being able to be installed into motors, even hard that one had to be ground down more due to a leaking rear main seal not being able to seal.... This is just off the top of my mind though. I've still not hear back from them on a light weight forged piston for my motor though...

[hot440roddin]

Just got he reply from 440 Source, here's what they had to say:
We have a flat top piston that would reside .018 below the deck and give you about 9.6 to 1 compression with that head. The only downside is that its a .990 size wrist pin versus the stock 1.094 so you would have to run an aftermarket rods with .990 pins if thats no going to work for you because you're going to keep the stock rods then I don't have a piston for you

Hmmm, so should I upgrade to new rods so I can run this piston, or hunt for another piston that matches this, but one in which I can run the factory rods?

[femtnmax]

You would need to have your old rods resized, etc so thats part way toward paying for aftermarket rods.
On the other hand we all know there are quality pistons out there to fit big block mopar OEM rods.
I'd look around for a piston to match your rods.