street 440 build?

[Chryco Psycho]

50/50 , his rods are not expensive & the total coat of rods & pistons combined may be less than the piston + resizing & new rod bolts for the rods you now have
 you will have to price it out both ways to see what is most cost effective

[hot440roddin]

I hunted around for a couple of minutes, about to head to town in a little bit, tried looking at some different rods, had a difficult time right off hand trying to find a set of factory style rods with a .990" end, 440 Source has these though:
Part #: 6760.990.2375.8740-H
Center-Center Length: 6.760"
Rod Type: H Beam
Journal Size: 2.375"
Wrist Pin Size: .990"   
Big End Width: 1.014"
Bolts Used: ARP 8740   190,000 PSI   
Approx. Weight: 740-750
Block Type: RB
Series: Platinum
Cost: $469

They do list a factory rod for a bit less, but it has the factory piston pin diameter hole. Still keeping an eye out for any others...

Just came across these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-6676099/ $465.95
from there the price just keeps climbing, lol. There were some that were $1?? but those for for just one connecting rod and rated for 1000 horse power, I don't think I'm going for anything even close to that kind of a number, lol.

[moper]

For what you are doing, I'd run the KBs. CP and I disagree on thier uselfulness...lol. However, if you are going to get forged pistons... 440Source uses KB to machine thier stuff. At least the applications on KBs website and the pistons themselves look identical. SO if you are nervous you could try getting them there. On the .990 pin... that is simply a 440 rod with a pin bushing installed on the small end for a full floating pin. It adds about $50 to the cost of getting rods resized. All 440Source rods will need to be re-machined. That has been my experience in using the kits over the years. Add about $100 or so to the cost of the rods and you'll be close. It's still a good set of rods for $600. Equal to Eagles or similar offereings elsewhere. You will want to choose the camshaft before you have the heads re-done. You may find certain cams (like all the Lunati grinds) need to run dual valve springs and that requires a few extra steps in the machining process.
FOr what you want to do, my recipe would be the KB hypers, a Comp Cams XE268, your stock rockers, it will need new springs but they are singles and can be used with your stock retainers and rocker assemblies, and the re-done LY rods (factory) with ARP bolts. The KBs are designed for a press fit like the factory so it will save a little there, and they are light. Using aftermarket H beams is adding weight and chances are good that you will need to add weight to the crank to internally balance. Using the LY rods you won't have to. All that basically ends up saving you some cash without sacrificing anything except running boost or NOS through it later.

[hot440roddin]

Moper, interesting. I don't plan on running NOX, don't want to chance burning the motor down... Superchargers and such are nice, but I think I'd want to build a stroker before I ran a supercharger or any kind... As for the cam you mentioned, would this be it?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K21-223-4/?image=large

[Chryco Psycho]

the Comp cam will leave 20+ hp behind over a similar Lunati VooDoo

[hot440roddin]

Really now, interesting, good thing to know too. Thanks for that info too Chryco.

Also, I looked up the suggested valve springs for the 60303 camshaft, here's what it says
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-73815/ They are a 1.500" spring diameter so on and so fourth. What was the factory valve spring dia? These are single springs, so I wan have to worry about anything special as far as dual or triple springs. It does suggest these locks: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-77004/ but I don't see any suggested retainers??? What do you think?

[moper]

First, we also disagree on using Comp products...lol. I find  most claims like that to be a hip shot in the dark Neil. You have no basis for it other than you hate Comp...lol.

As far as real tech info... A dual spring means a thicker outer spring with a flat wire dampner pressed in, plus a seperate internal 2nd spring. Lunati wants to run a dual spring because of the ramp speeds they like to tout and that type of spring needs the guides trimmed for positive seals which are narrower than the stock umbrella or semipositive rubber types, and the spring seats (where the spring is sitting around each valve guide) need to be cut down soe the inner springs are properly positioned. Also, you will need a new retainer for the dual springs and you might as well get matching new locks for it. It also means you need to assemble the heads with the outer spring, break in the cam, and then remove the rockers and install the inner springs on the engine as breaking it in with both springs carries a certain risk of cam failure.  The Comp version can use a single spring with a dampner. That means fatory retainers and locks, original stock type seals, and no special going back after the cam's broken in. Much cheaper and easier, and no ad-man type hype about power loss due to brand names.

[hot440roddin]

Hey Moper, just wondering, you say that the Lunati co. suggests running dual springs with their cams, right? I looked up the suggested spring for the above referenced cam, but the spring is only a single spring, with damper, and is a 1.500" outside diameter. I copied the info from the site, here's what it says:
Brand      Lunati
Manufacturer's Part Number      73815
Part Type      Valve Springs
Product Line      Lunati Intro Series Valve Springs
Summit Racing Part Number      LUN-73815
      
Number of Springs Per Valve      Single
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in)      1.500 in.
Coil Bind Height (in)      1.130 in.
Damper Spring Included      Yes
Spring Rate (lbs/in)      342 lbs./in.
Inside Diameter of Outer Spring (in)      1.086 in.
Valve Spring Style      Standard
Coated      No
Quantity      Sold as a set of 16.

Here's the link to these suggested springs: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-73815/
I'm just wondering what's going on, if Lunati wants a dual spring to be used, then why is a single being suggested? Did someone mess up some where? I hope not, don't want to mess something up because of someone else's mistake...

[Chryco Psycho]

Actually I do have a basis for it , I have dynoed a lot of engines + I have done comparison dyno puls before & after swapping out Comp cams to be sure I was not wasting my time or my customers $$
 Yes I dislike Comp cam grinds , most are created for the small block Chev & can be matched up to the exact grind in the small block Chev section , for the most part changing a cam for 20-40 HP is not cost effective but when the customer has wanted to do it the improvement is consistant or I would not be posting that it was & would be recommending Comp grinds ..... which I do not .

[71chally416]

I'm with Neil on this. Comp makes some good stuff but their cams are suspect. I have a shelf full of their grinds that didn't make the HP the Crane cam we had in the ProMod car made, and some of them ate the valve gear. It wasn't cheap valve gear either, unless you think Jesel rockers and smith brother pushrods are cheap. Even when the same lobes were specified the Crane made more power and was easier on the valve train than the Comp cams we used. That indicates to me the cam grinding process was inferior    It might not be as obvious with a mild hydraulic grind but for what it's worth that is my experience. I wouldn't be surprised if someone did a dyno test they came out behind Lunati and and a few others. 

[moparniac]

For a mild street 440 build I think you all are arguing for nothing over this cam deal  I had a shelf comp solid roller in the challenger..... And I have a custom comp cam ground going in the dart which is my own specs and is nothing radicle just like the chally had nothing radicle in it!  Im sure you guys know every engine likes something different and in no way is there proof enough to say one cam makes more power over the other on every combo! 

Whats funny is some of you guys say you cant run dominators and 4000 stall converters and max wedge ports on the street! I call BS on that one too! My 4000 stall custom converter worked way better than shelf coan 3000 converter! My dominator had response like a street bike! All this with max wedge ports and a comp cam that was only a 248/254 solid roller! Is mid 10's good enough at 3850lbs with a small comp roller cam on PUMP gas / Full exhaust and Street Radial tire in a REAL street car? That takes alot of horsepower to do that! I could have ran race gas and slicks and gutted the car out easilly but thats not the way I roll 

Click on my sig link for the challenger!

Its all about the combo not the part manufacture! 

[hot440roddin]

Looks like fun Stroker

[Chryco Psycho]

I have to agree with stroker , I have used Dominators & Max ports on the street , no issues
 no clue on the stall converter though , I never learned how to drive an Auto 

[moper]

CP... I simply don't agree, and there are thousands of guys that would disagree with you. I would suggest that perhaps the grinds you are using to compare are not an apples to apples. But I can also tell you swapping cams always gets power if the first cam was wrong for the combo to begin with. Not because it says Crower, Isky, Ultradyne, Engle, Comp, Edelbrock, or Insane Phil's Military Surplus and Camshafts on the box. No biggie, it's your sandbox. Or soap box...lol.

hot440,
 I stand corrected. The small block uses a double spring.. that was the one I am more familiar with. The big block uses a sinlge. Probably because of the taller installed height. Nobody knows everything...lol.

[hot440roddin]

Moper, it's fine, I'm still learning things myself, I'm more of a big block kind of guy, and would be venturing into dark waters if I were to get into small blocks, lol. There's a guy around the corner from me who's got a Roadrunner with 340 4 speed though