My EFI Conversion

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Offline the_engineers

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My EFI Conversion
« on: September 10, 2009 - 03:27:34 PM »
Well, after reading all of the threads here (and most of the threads that I could find elsewhere) I've decided to convert my car over to EFI.

My plan, as far as it's developed, will focus the build around the following pieces:

1991 Mustang 5.0 MAF computer and harness w/ firing order reprogramming
Custom intake - tunnel ram bottom (thanks MoparAl!) and custom cast upper plenum (local artisan)
75mm Throttle Body
30 lb injectors

There is much more, but that covers the initial pieces.

The current engine set-up for the car is a '71 360 + .030".  I'm running a Lunati Voodoo cam and Edelbrock RPM heads.  Compression is 10.2:1.

I have an A-518 that TACTransman (Terry) built, but is not in yet and the rear is a 3.91 gear.  I run a 26.6" rear tire.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009 - 03:36:31 PM by the_engineers »
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.




Offline the_engineers

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2009 - 04:03:07 PM »
This project is designed to be a step-by-step documentation of the process as I work through it.  Feel free to provide feedback or input as you see fit.  Keep in mind that there are a lot of misconceptions attached to EFI (I probably have some as well) so expect healthy discussion if you jump in.

I've been reading a lot and working with a few people on designing the upper plenum.  There seems to be a basic school of thought that the volume of the upper intake should be approximatley the same volume as the engine displacement.  That said, the design has to accomodate the length and width of the tunnel ram and be tall enough for the throttle body to mount to without being 500 - 600 cu in.

I'm thinking that I'll most likely have to take volume out of the plenum base, but haven't made a clear decision on how to accomplish that yet.

I found a local blacksmith who seems to be very interested in pouring the casting for me.  I'm planning on using the "lost foam" technique and a friend from Illinois State University has put me in contact with one of the premier mold designers in the country.

Here is a preview of what the top will look like (it won't be green).
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009 - 06:32:56 PM by the_engineers »
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.

Offline quapman

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2009 - 05:45:07 PM »
Will be watching this closely and hope to learn lots!  :2thumbs:
My name is Steve and I'm addicted to Challengers...


Offline 6packCuda

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2009 - 06:21:02 PM »
 :iagree: Me too!
Dave

Offline 426HEMI

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2009 - 06:54:11 PM »
 :iagree:  sounds good will keep watching   :bigsmile:
Got a pretty good start on my M46 optioned Barracuda restoration but now it is on hold till I can gather more funds.  Still need a few parts for it.  SIU Graduate 75 AAS Automotive Tech, 94 BS Advanced Tech Studies, 1997 MSED Workforce Education and Development

1970 M46 Barracuda
1998 Dodge Darango

Gordon

Offline 67vertman

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2009 - 08:31:16 PM »
Mine will be EFI as well…..one day.  I am planning on running a 6-pack fuel injection system on a 440. 

So I will be watching this thread with much interest.   :2thumbs:



Ron - Born and raised in Southern California

I got the 1970 Cuda, but still need the hot blonde to ride shotgun!

First car -1969 Road Runner 383 4sp

Current ride - 1970 Barracuda 440-6 4 sp Dana 60  (4:10)

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2009 - 09:01:59 PM »
Sounds good - I was going to do something similar using 5.0 stuff, it's cheap and plentiful. You don't have to reprogram the firing order, just wire up the injectors to follow the mopar firing order since you will have to create your own harness anyway. The computer doesn't know what motor it is attached to. Are you going to use an EEC-IV processor or and aftermarket one? Are you going to use the ford TFI module for the ignition or ???
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline the_engineers

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2009 - 10:09:21 PM »
According to several sources, the firing order either needs to be reprogrammed or the two injectors that cause the issue need to be left in place and they will simply fire out of order.

The problem with swapping injectors is that the driver's O2 sensor will see a lean condition and the passenger side will see a rich condition.  The computer will adjust accordingly, manipulating the pulse width (duration) for the injector that it thinks is off.  Because the injector the computer is manipulating is on the other side of the motor, the rich condition will cause the computer to richen that side and the same on the lean side.  The motor will run without reprogramming as long as you follow the Chrylser version of the original firing order.  Fine tuning has to involve reprogramming the firing order.

BTW, Ford numbers their cylinders from front to back, starting on the passenger's side.  The regular 302 has the same firing order (by location, not number) as the 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 Mopar order.  The H.O. 302, in Chrysler's cylinder numbering would be 1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3.

I picked up a complete 1991 H.O. 302 from Craigslist.  Sold the motor, kept all the EFI pieces, sensors, computer, harness, etc.  Net price...$125.  I'll keep a running tally as I go.  Right now, I'm in for $300.

As for the distributor, this actually looks a lot easier than initially expected.  One of Chrysler's best design attributes is that the cam is VERY high in the block.  Because of  this, our distributor shafts are relatively short.  A 302, even though the deck height is almost 1.5" shorter, actually has a longer distributor shaft.  Have your favorite parts guy pull one of each for you to look at.

This appears as simple as hacking about 2" off the 302 TFI shaft, keying it like a Mopar and adding a mounting flange to drop it onto a Mopar block.

I really want this to e very DIY, so if you see me making a mistake, please fire away.  Thanks for the input all.
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.

Offline Tejas R/T

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2009 - 10:47:26 PM »
 :popcorn:

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2009 - 02:16:04 AM »
Are you going to use the stock ford efi controller? If so spend some time researching the tweecer (newish) and the eec-tuner (older). There are some "features" thats are not the easiest to work around using the stock EEC code and the tables and "mystery terminology" it uses. If you check out diyautotune.com they have a megasquirt to EEC adapter board that plugs right into the stock EEC harness. The megasquirt is much easier to tune (it will self tune if you want it to), can use MAP or MAF for load and can interface with the TFI ignition. If you stay with the stock harness, I would eliminate the two large engine to body harness connectors that would attach to the back of the stock 5.0 intake. They had a lot of problems with connection issues and published TSBs to correct them. Of course if you make up a new harness from scratch that problem would be eliminated. The EEC-IV system is a nice setup in stock form and has some good adaptability when using larger cams with the MAF sensor and properly sized injectors. Learn to program it yourself using one of the available J3 port adapters (tweecer/eec-tuner). Make sure you have zero air leaks between the MAF (no open element breathers and all that) and your engine and it will work well
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009 - 10:11:58 AM by ntstlgl1970 »
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline Chryco Psycho

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2009 - 03:54:46 AM »
could use a crank trigger instead of the dist
 30 lb injector look to small to me

Challenger - You`ll wish You Hadn`t

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2009 - 10:10:29 AM »
EEC related links:
http://www.tweecer.com/
http://fordfuelinjection.com/files/EECTuner_FAQ.pdf - read this if you are going to use the EEC to control your engine. Really. It would be best to find out how comfortable you are with the stock controller before investing too much money in an EEC dedicated system.
http://www.superstallions.com/tech/elect/eectuner/eectuner.html
http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?products_id=75
http://www.austincc.edu/cloud/tc_eec.htm

If you want to go distributorless (I would suggest the Ford EDIS system) - a great write up to help understand how it works is here:
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm

A good injector sizing program is here: http://www.bgsoflex.com/auto.html

That was some good info on the injector stuff, I never got as far as the wiring when I was still contemplating the 5.0 EEC system
« Last Edit: September 11, 2009 - 10:17:26 AM by ntstlgl1970 »
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline TripleT

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2009 - 10:19:31 AM »
 :popcorn:

Thanks for documenting this and hope to see lots of pics.
-Tim

1970 Plymouth Barracuda    2000 Dodge Ram 2500

Offline the_engineers

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2009 - 02:02:04 PM »
The injector sizing program says 26# for an 80% cycle...
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2009 - 02:43:51 PM »
There was a guy on here that did this swap previously on his small block Cuda (use search to find it) but I could never get any response from him.
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....