My EFI Conversion

Author Topic: My EFI Conversion  (Read 23774 times)

Offline PlumCrazyChris

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2009 - 10:41:22 AM »
The low pres pump certainly puts out enough volume, it can run the motor by itself with a carb, it just doesn't have enough pressure for the injectors.  That along with the return line, will ensure that you never run the hi pres pump dry. 

PlumCrazyChris
Mopar Muscle Cars of Austin
Round Rock Tx
70 Challenger 5.7, A518, A/C
70 Challenger 340 convertible (Gone to Sweden)
68 Barracuda (sold it too)
www.mopar.org




Offline the_engineers

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2009 - 02:46:13 PM »
Is it worth the extra complexity?  After everything I've read, the response (and pics) from thedodgeboys makes the most sense to me.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=61841.0
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2009 - 03:57:40 PM »
Here is a really good external hi pressure pump for around $100. Very popular with the turbo crowd too
http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/walbro-gsl392-255lph-fuel-pump-p-312.html
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline PlumCrazyChris

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2009 - 04:58:13 PM »
That looks pretty good.  Do you know if it can be submerged or not?

Chris
PlumCrazyChris
Mopar Muscle Cars of Austin
Round Rock Tx
70 Challenger 5.7, A518, A/C
70 Challenger 340 convertible (Gone to Sweden)
68 Barracuda (sold it too)
www.mopar.org

Offline PlumCrazyChris

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2009 - 05:01:50 PM »
Is it worth the extra complexity?  After everything I've read, the response (and pics) from thedodgeboys makes the most sense to me.
http://www.cuda-challenger.com/cc/index.php?topic=61841.0


If you have the welding skills that looks like a really sweet setup.  I'd think about a trap door in the trunk to access it.   I suppose you use the stock sending unit to measure fuel level? 

PlumCrazyChris
Mopar Muscle Cars of Austin
Round Rock Tx
70 Challenger 5.7, A518, A/C
70 Challenger 340 convertible (Gone to Sweden)
68 Barracuda (sold it too)
www.mopar.org

Offline PlumCrazyChris

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2009 - 05:04:11 PM »
The low pres pump certainly puts out enough volume, it can run the motor by itself with a carb, it just doesn't have enough pressure for the injectors.  That along with the return line, will ensure that you never run the hi pres pump dry.

I already had the low pres pump installed because I had intended on installing a 90 TBI 318.  But then I got the hemi and things changed.   So for me it was a no brainer to just add the sump and hi pres pump.   

I ended up getting a hi pres pump for a 07 Dodge truck on Ebay for about $50 shipped. 
PlumCrazyChris
Mopar Muscle Cars of Austin
Round Rock Tx
70 Challenger 5.7, A518, A/C
70 Challenger 340 convertible (Gone to Sweden)
68 Barracuda (sold it too)
www.mopar.org

Offline quagmire

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2009 - 08:00:49 PM »
There are a lot of affordable inline EFI pumps, that Walbro can be submerged but it is not necessary by any means.  They are plenty reliable too, Ford and many others used external inline pumps for quite a few years with no issues.  The biggest reason for in tank mounting was NVH isolation.  Personally, the extra sump and low pressure pick up pump seems like more complication and extra things that can fail.  :2cents:

I will be running the Summit rebadged version of Aeromotive's Tsunami external pump, it's good to 800HP and more streetable than the beast A1000.  I plan on making quite a bit of power though.

Offline EFI-Cuda

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2009 - 12:39:53 PM »
This is an excellent thread with a lot of useful information.  However the topic of EFI can get overwhelming if there are more questions than answers.  I'd like to make the point that the topic of an EFI (fuel system) and EFI (Electronics/Computer) are topics that can be addressed separately.

EFI Fuel system
There are many ways to do a fuel system.  Basically, there needs to be a fuel line from the tank (inlet line) and a fuel line going back to the tank (return line).  A high pressure fuel pump, a decent fuel pressure regulator and fuel injectors are needed to complete the system.

My fuel system is overkill for most. It was designed to support 800 supercharged horsepower.  The size of the fuel pump and fuel lines I used are not necessary for a basic EFI conversion.  However, my experience building my fuel system helped me to identify some points that I'd like to share.

1.) I made my return line larger than normal for EFI because if I wanted to go back to a carb, I could get a fuel pressure regulator that could drop the fuel pressure down as low as 6psi.  If my return line was too small, it might not allow for fuel pressures to drop low enough for a carb. 

2.) You need to address fuel slosh.  EFI gas tanks have baffles that help prevent the fuel from sloshing around to limit the fuel pump from sucking air.  I got a new gas tank and modified it by cutting it open and having baffles welded in.  I also modified the tank to have the inlet line and the return line on the side of the tank.  My fuel pump is an Aeromotive A-1000 and it’s externally mounted.  I don’t have any major problems with my setup, but there are easier and better ways of doing it.  If I had to do it again, I’d create a way to actually mount the pump in the tank and use the Walbro GSL392 255lph Fuel Pump that was suggested by another member.  This is a small, powerful, quiet pump that can be mounted in the tank.  Look at the EFI gas tank that XV Motorsports offers.  It is a Mustang fuel pump bracket (that can fit the Walbro pump) mounted inside a Mopar fuel tank.  Mustang guys that need more fuel than this often use two of these pumps.

3.) Don’t be cheap on your fuel system if you are trying to make real horsepower.  Build the fuel system for the horsepower that you might want to make in the future.  This way you can upgrade your engine and not have to worry about the fuel system again. It is cheaper to do it right the first time then to re-do and upgrade it later.

Again, if I was building an EFI fuel system today, I’d get a new tank and a Mustang fuel pump bracket and have the tank modified to fit the bracket like the XV Motorsport set up.  I’d use the Walbro pump intank and later upgrade to two pumps if needed.
Cuda 408, Ford EFI, Magnum heads, Vortech V-2 Si-Trim, A-518 transmission and 3.23 gears.

Offline ntstlgl1970

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2009 - 02:14:51 PM »
Aeromotive says that the A1000 is able to be mounted in tank now, though I have to wonder how huge the opening in the tank would have to be to fit that thing in there. I've thought pretty seriously about replacing the A1000 with either the Walbro pump or the Bosch porsche turbo pump due to some reports of how noisy the A1000 is. EFI-Cuda-what is your experience with the A1000 as far as noise is concerned?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009 - 02:19:41 PM by ntstlgl1970 »
70 Cuda, 7.0L Gen-III Hemi, Viper T56 w/9310 gearset, 3.91's, Megasquirt MS3x v3.57, Innovate wideband, Firm Feel upper arms, torsion bars, springs and strut rods, QA1 DA shocks. I did everything on this car except the fancy paint stuff and I drive it...and I can't seem to stop messing with it....

Offline shawge

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2009 - 02:57:25 PM »
Would you have pictures of the baffles you welded in available? 
- Jerry

Offline EFI-Cuda

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2009 - 04:58:43 PM »
Here are a few more pics. 

The Aeromotive A1000 is a big pump and according to Aeromotive needs to be mounted below the tank so it can be gravity fed.  And, the pump doesn't like being used to suck fuel.  It only likes to push it. 

Given these restrictions, I'd try the Walbro pump if I had to do it again.  Or, maybe I could mount the pump in the tank.  For right now, my fuel set up has given me no problems and works great.  The pump can be heard, but I don't think that the pump is too loud.  Besides, the engine and the blower whine drown it out.    :-)




And, there is no where on an E-body that I can see mounting this big pump below the gas tank.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2009 - 05:09:53 PM by EFI-Cuda »
Cuda 408, Ford EFI, Magnum heads, Vortech V-2 Si-Trim, A-518 transmission and 3.23 gears.

Offline the_engineers

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #56 on: September 27, 2009 - 10:16:56 AM »
Well, I finally got a chance to work on my intake yesterday.

The plan is to do a "lost foam" casting.  Basically, you make exactly what you want out of styrofoam.  You then bury the foam in sand.  When you pour the molten aluminum onto the foam, it dissolves and the aluminum fills the void.

Here are a few pics of the foam form building process.

I'm building the intake form by laminating layers of expanded polystyrene together.  I designed the look and the layers on AutoCAD and had it plotted.  I cut out each piece and glued it to the foam to use as a cutting guide.






This stuff works like crazy!


First two glued together.


(Mostly) completed base.


The angle makes it look like it's close between the waterneck and the throttle body...it's not.


I'll have to build the lid as a wooden form.  I don't think 1/8" - 1/4" details in foam will hold up.
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.

Offline bb71challenger

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #57 on: September 27, 2009 - 10:35:00 AM »
Man I dont know how I missed this thread. I am loving every minute of this post. Seems like a pretty solid way to get EFI without plopping down 3k. I will watching this one with great interest.
1971 Challenger (OO==== ====OO) getting close!
1970 Challenger (OO########OO) long ways off
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Offline Grundy

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #58 on: September 28, 2009 - 12:51:00 PM »
Are you going to have enough clearance for the coolant elbow? Seems like tight clearance. OTherwise, that's gonna be awesome!
Drive it like you stole it.

Offline the_engineers

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Re: My EFI Conversion
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2009 - 01:45:59 PM »
The angle of the picture makes it look tighter than it is.  From the side it looks like I have space for my stock water neck and hose.  Maybe I better measure before this gets permanent.
Brooks

1971 'Cuda 360
2004 Infiniti G35 6-spd Coupe
2001 Toyota Solara Convertible
2002 GMC Savana 1500 Explorer Hightop Conversion
1972 Dodge Dart Swinger...keeping the Slant.  Rocking the turbos.